Speaker 1 0:17

You know, I was involved with a fellowship at one point in time, and we had a group meeting things. I don't know if you guys have ever done this or not, but you get together and you write your life story together, and you meet weekly and and you have a workbook and you start as a child and you go through your life and then you share with each other as you go and your testimony and all those things. And it's pretty fascinating. But one of the things it it did in our case was it brought up the point of how much easier it would be in our life as we look back if God just told us what he wanted. Right? He just gave us the rules, not the Ten Commandments now. I'm not talking the negatives, the not. I'm talking the do's. You know what I mean? Like do this, do that, do this. How much easier it would have been if God just said these are the things and that's it. But see, that's works, isn't it? It's the good side of the tree, isn't it? It's the good side of the tree. So we have to default again to grace and personal relationship. Because that's really what he wants, right? So as long the lines of the reality of time, there are times when we try to make decisions for society and they can't be made. Because God's not a national God anymore, as he was in the old testament. He's a personal god.

Speaker 2 1:35

Uh yeah, that's very true. Yeah. And if we take the passages uh like MacArthur's doing and take it too literally about babies being saved, do we also disbelieve that they're babies for eternity? Ever considered that? How would you like to be an eternal baby? Oh, he can't talk. Just leave him alone. You can just leave him alone.

Speaker 1 1:56

Or when he gets to when he gets to heaven, he gets baptized. Do you ever see those little things that you put water on and they grow? That's what happens to those guys when they get to heaven. Water on, you they get a little holy water on them in heaven and then they grow right to the adult right away. Maybe not.

Speaker 2:13

Those little dinosaurs you put them. They're often dinosaurs.

Speaker 1 2:17

Exactly. That's that's what it is.

Speaker 2:19

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 2:21

Alright, um I had a few bullet points on the age of accountability.

Speaker 1 2:26

One thing about that is along the lines of what I grew up in, is that it's amazing the maturity of children that grow up in a loving environment in a Christian household, the maturity of those children to be able to make mature decisions at a young age based on those who are not. I think that's pretty incredible. That children who are fed the truth, the word of God, the reality of who God is, the relationship of God in their family and home, come to those decisions. They want that at a much earlier age. I would never take that away from children, that decision. A lot of times people will say, Well, you know what, that kid, he was uh he he really wasn't old enough to make that decision. We don't really know if he's accepted Christ into his life. But we've got to remember what salvation is. It's not what we were taught it was, it's not the prayer and the all that type of stuff. It's acknowledging the presence of a redeeming God that's transformed our life.

unknown 3:22

Yeah.

Speaker 1 3:22

It's pretty simple. It's pretty simple, right? It's not like, okay, here's a Roman road. I want you to read this, and don't forget to close your eyes and bow your head. All of us were taught that. That's how all of us came into the kingdom. And I don't discount that. I'm just saying, as Paul said in Hebrews, there's a better way. That better way is simply acknowledging him. So then the religious crowd goes crazy because that husband that lived with that wife that everybody thought was unsaved, he acknowledged Christ at a young age. But he's just not showing it in the way that the wife would appreciate it, or the people in the church would put it. All of a sudden now he is a quote-unquote heathen, when in reality he accepted Christ and just accepts everything at face value, and he doesn't see going to church four times a week. He doesn't see all those things. But he's still an eternal new creation. So it really turns uh everything on his head when we start thinking about change of accountability, the reality of Christ.

Speaker 2 4:21

Right. And everything you said about children being raised up, Paul would completely agree with you. In Ephesians 6, he says, Children, obey your parents and the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and mother. Yeah. That it may go well with you, and you may live long in the land. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. Paul is teaching exactly what you were saying. You're gonna have good results. These children are gonna live long in the promised land, in their inheritance, if they follow this instruction. And parents, if you follow this instruction, it'll go well with your children. These are good, holy things. So in that way, children growing up in a Christian home are holy, even though they might not yet be saved.

Speaker 1 5:05

Yeah, exactly. A beautiful point. I think many times when we see this dedication, you know, first I'll define the Jack's baptism uh definition for you, which is not strange at all. It's just that um baptism is really a celebration, right? Yeah. It uh it's from one person in the old testament, it was a commitment of a follower. It said, Look, I will follow you, I will be your disciple. And somehow that's got twisted off into a new covenant to say baptism is saying that here that I am publicly declaring that I will be a disciple of Jesus Christ. It's not that it's not that baptism today is simply saying, I got the picture. I see what's happened to me, and I have the privilege of experiencing it physically. Yeah. You know, like I've been at churches where you have to give your testimony, it's all written out, all those types of things. That's wonderful if you want to do that. But I gotta tell you what, some of the best experiences we've had is when we went to the pond, somebody wants to be baptized, there's four or five of us, we are shouting and singing and thanking God for the fact that that person wants to celebrate his eternal life and new creation. Yeah, that's cool. That is like it is the best. I love I mean, don't even, you know, in a traditional church, don't even bring up baptism if I'm there. Come on, glued, they they have to escort me out, all that type of thing, because it's like this is awesome! Somebody wants to get baptized, and I can actually be part of it. Let's sing a hymn, let's do something. Yeah. You know, because of the opportunity of baptism in reflecting what's going to be the rest of our experience. That's the beauty of that celebration, just like a birthday. We turn back and we say, on this day when I became aware of who Christ was in my life, I actually left guilt, death, frustration. I left all those things behind, and I became a new creation.

Speaker 2 7:13

Yeah, and then the and then the actual ritual of it just stands out in your mind as a symbol of that, and you remember the the water, and I think that's pretty cool. To understand it in context is very cool.

Speaker 1 7:25

Just to yeah, that's the important part.

Speaker 2 7:28

But it's gotten so bad and out of hand that it's it's I remember hearing somebody say I don't even do baptisms at our church anymore because of how bad it's gotten with people's views on it. Yeah, well, they're afraid that it's not gonna stick. Yeah, people freak out. It's good, it's about salvation, it's about all this stuff like you said. It's my discipleship beginning, and there's so much tied to it out of context that it's no longer even enjoyable in reality, in the right context. So you're celebrating the wrong things.

Speaker 1 7:56

You're not even so some of them are saying you're not even saved if you're not baptized.

Speaker 2 8:00

Yeah. So if that's your attitude going in, how are you actually celebrating? There's no celebration. It's another fear thing. You're just happy that you're not afraid anymore. Yeah, that's exactly right. I well, I know I checked that box.

Speaker 1 8:14

I'm so relieved. Yeah, wow, I made it to baptism. That's fun. Okay.

Speaker 8:19

I gotta tell a little story. Patty, you're gonna laugh at the it's funny, but Patty, you especially will laugh. But uh, okay, grandma, my grandma's very Catholic, very, very Catholic, and my aunt wanted to have her son baptized. Were you there, Patty? No, I was there. So you were there. So, you know, how old? Maybe maybe five? Maybe. I don't even know if he was that old. I'm not kidding you when it took like three people to hold him down, uh hold him upside down and walk him down the aisle while he's screaming, bringing him up to the priest. He got away, he's running, he's running all around the church, screaming. Everybody's just kind of sitting there waiting for they finally contain him, and they are able to hold him down in the water for a minute. He pops up again, he's running around that just they're holding him. Three people have to escort him out, stiff backed, you know. It was so crazy. Finally, they this you can hear him screaming outside as they're carrying him to the car, and we're in the church, and my grandma looks at the priest and says, Do you think it took?

Speaker 1 9:38

I mean, well, that was yeah, that was a memorable experience.

Speaker 9:44

And she was serious, she was serious, fully serious. It was a little bit more like an exorcism, it felt like they probably could have brought somebody for that if they had known in advance.

Speaker 1 9:57

Yeah, they could have charged admission to that and had it be a Catholic rodeo.

Speaker 10:01