Announcement: 0:01

Hello and welcome to the Waking Up to Grace podcast, where we celebrate and explore the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ. Tune in to the Waking Up to Grace podcast on every major platform. You can also listen to our episodes and read our full transcripts at wakinguptogracecom. And now here's Lenny.

Lenny: 0:22

Welcome back to the podcast everyone. In our last study I introduced the concept of Welcome back to the podcast everyone. In our last study I introduced the concept of the gospel being written in the stars. I'll likely dive into that again more later in Romans when Paul references the subject again in chapter 10. In case you didn't see it, I did update that episode with more information a few days after publishing it. There's now about 15 minutes more added to the episode, if you want to check that out. Today we're going to be looking at what Paul writes about homosexuality.

Lenny: 0:50

Today this has become quite a hot topic in the church and sadly I see error on both sides of the argument. I see one side trampling the gospel and the other side watering it down and we're supposed to pick a side. The church doesn't look any better than our government in this way. It's a total circus. The history of the institutional church is very troubling in this way and today isn't really much better. In the past it would be common to be killed for something deemed as heresy. The same would often happen for someone proclaiming the truth. It just depended on who was in charge and what they believed. Can you imagine what America would look like. If the church has handled things the way they have in the past, I don't know who would be killing who right now. Why is the institutional church so caught up in error all throughout history? I think it's because religion puts people in spiritual bondage and creates bitterness.

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Today, in looking at the next passages in our Roman study, I'm going to challenge you to find the truth about homosexuality and the error in the arguments of most church establishments today. We finished our last study with Paul saying For his invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived ever since the creation of the world and the things that have been made. So they are. We discussed how Yahweh is clearly revealed as gospel to mankind, and so they are, without excuse. Based on our last study, I think that the they is representing mankind in general, not just a specific group of people such as national Israel. Going into the next passages of our study, in verse 21, paul writes For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their foolish hearts were darkened. We go over the storyline from Genesis to Christ in episode 42 and 43, if you want to look at those later. But the question is, could the they here still be representing a mankind who is rejecting Yahweh? Who's he referring to as they? I believe he's just talking about mankind in general here. When we look at the context, I don't think anything has shifted from our last study, where we determined that he's talking about all of mankind since creation, since the fall, all the way up to the gospel.

Lenny: 3:11

What does it seem that Yahweh was looking for in mankind, based on this passage? It says for although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their foolish hearts were darkened. So I would say he's looking for honor. He's looking to be honored as God, which is the God of all gods, king of kings, lord of lords, and he likes when we give thanks to him. What would be the opposite? Rejecting him and being unthankful. So what was the result of mankind not honoring the Lord or being thankful to him? All their foolish hearts were darkened, their thinking became futile, it was worthless, All their thoughts were worthless, darkened hearts.

Lenny: 3:57

Has every single person known God in the way that they're describing here? Every single person? Maybe, not every single person. I think, based on the context, you know that he's pretty much summarizing that humanity has known god, he's made himself well known to humanity. But, as we read earlier and we'll get into that, people suppress the truth. So if mankind's suppressing the truth, some men may not recognize it because it's being suppressed. So mankind is ruining mankind basically.

Lenny: 4:30

But in general, does mankind know God in this way? And I don't see this to be clear as an intimate sense. It's kind of like he's right in front of your face. You know about him is what I'm seeing here. Clearly, in the context he's not talking about people loving God, because in some areas of scripture, like when God knows you and foreknows you, there's a very intimate meaning to that word, but here we just see a common knowledge. So in general, does mankind know about God? I think, like in today's age, yeah, I mean just about everybody knows about Christ, yeshua and they would say Jesus. Obviously People know about him, people know about God. Gospel's all over the place but nobody really cares because it's being suppressed and people make light of it. Right, is it easy to apply these passages to Israel? Because they stand out as a people who knew God. Right.

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But then we got to think, as we were looking at earlier, was Yahweh dealing with mankind before Israel? And we determined that we figured he was talking just in general to mankind, but just to kind of prove the point altogether, just knowing about God. People were not in the dark about God. Adam and Eve walked among Yahweh and Eden, and then from them comes Noah and Enoch who also walked with the Lord. Those guys were prophets in their time. You think they just kept their mouths shut and kept it to themselves. No, abraham had a discussion with Yahweh directly. That was all before Israel.

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Cain and Abel were making offerings to the Lord and seemed to know what pleased him and what didn't. You had Abel offering a sacrifice that was pleasing and Cain not pleasing. And it seems clear to me when I look at that story that Cain knew he was offering a garbage offering. I don't think it was an accident. Then, before the flood, we have this strange happening where clean and unclean animals are being brought onto the ark. Have you ever thought about that? You sit there and you read about Noah's ark and it says to bring so many clean and unclean animals? He says to Noah and you're just like well, how did they know that? Because God was dealing with them.

Lenny: 6:42

God was dealing with his people Before the law, during the law and after the law. Then you also have Abraham giving this tithe to Melchizedek and if you study that a little bit, he was a Christ type. There's something very special about that situation going on there Before the law. But the funny thing is that the tithe was mentioned before the law. A lot of people use that to say the tithe is still honorable today, which makes no sense, because we have a whole new covenant here and it was apart from the law and it's all free, it's based on grace. Tithes never once mentioned to be honored in the New Testament, but that's a whole other story. He was dealing with his people. They were making sacrifices. A tithe was known about somehow. It wasn't money, it was spoils from a war, but it's just fascinating thinking about how God was dealing with his people, isn't it?

Lenny: 7:32

So can we conclude just on these facts that God was dealing with mankind before Israel? Absolutely. I mean, I used to look at these passages and think it had to be Israel, because that's who God was dealing with. That's who God was revealing himself through. It seemed to make a lot of sense. In my opinion, based on the last study that we did, the context much more fits with him dealing with mankind in general and directing those passages at that. I think that's very clear.

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So is mankind basically good all along, from the beginning, after the fall, or the opposite? No, they definitely aren't basically good, are they? Apart from God, they're downright evil. But what made man pleasing to the Lord all throughout history? Faith, belief, honoring him, being thankful to him, right the things that come from faith and belief. So let's look back on verse 18 for some more context.

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In Romans 1.18, we read For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who, by their unrighteousness, suppress the truth. So although the Lord has revealed himself since the beginning of creation, did that stop mankind from suppressing his truth with error and lies? No, it sure didn't. If rejecting the gospel, not honoring Yahweh, not giving thanks to Yahweh, suppresses the truth, then is it possible that many end up not knowing of the Lord at all due to the sin of others? And I say yeah, absolutely. It just confirms what we were talking about before. If the truth gets suppressed, some people might not ever hear Does the Lord owe salvation to sinful man.

Lenny: 9:11

Does anyone have an excuse for their sin and for their unbelief? According to Paul, they're without excuse. When we go back to the fall of mankind in Eden, we inherit spiritual death from Adam and Eve at birth. Does this seem to give us any more of an excuse, according to Paul? Sometimes I wonder, jokingly, is Paul trying to help out Adam when we get to heaven? Because it kind of seems like a whole lot of people are thinking Adam did this, it's your fault, adam, or maybe the people that are perishing they're going to say God, it was Adam's fault. I don't think that's going to work. I think Paul makes that pretty clear that you don't have an excuse. You can't blame somebody else for your own unbelief and your own sin. So Paul continues Claiming to be wise. They became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Do we see this going on throughout scripture before national Israel? You know, if we're looking at this, as is the context about Israel or mankind, did we see this going on throughout scripture before national Israel? And we do.

Lenny: 10:16

And if we dig into historical evidence, we find examples of mankind worshiping lesser gods we learn about in episodes 42 and 43, lesser gods we learned about in episodes 42 and 43, these lesser gods weren't merely made up. These images likely represented the corrupt watchers that were put in charge of the nations at Babel. They were likely influenced to worship these images rather than Yahweh. We see examples of this in Egypt. At the time of Exodus, egypt had frog gods. There's historical evidence to support this, if you look it up. What did Yahweh do to Egypt? Through Moses, he gave them a ton of frogs. There were frogs coming out everywhere. It was a plague of frogs. Was this random choice on the part of our Lord or was this Yahweh displaying his sovereignty and power over all of the lesser gods and deities? It was actually Yahweh displaying his sovereignty over the lesser gods.

Lenny: 11:06

Throughout scripture, we see mankind worshiping the lesser gods, worshiping the Nephilim and rejecting Yahweh. Again in episodes 42 and 43, we talked about those things. The angels sent to man by Yahweh would even declare things like don't bow before me, I'm only a messenger. But the rebellious watchers, or angels, did not honor God in this way. As we study in the beginning of Romans, yahweh is the creator, the triune God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are the creator. Our Lord was from the beginning. The world, the divine council, mankind, the heavenly realms are his creation. Anything under Yahweh looking to be worshipped in his place was rebelling against him. Nothing under Yahweh is to be held above him by mankind. But that doesn't stop us from doing it anyway, does it? There was consequences. Continuing. Paul writes Therefore, god gave them up, in the lusts of their hearts, to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever.

Lenny: 12:17

Amen. God. Giving them up, according to some, is a powerful way of saying that God literally did this to them. God cast the spell of sin onto these people, but that would make God the direct author of sin. Do we really see God as the author of sin in this passage, though? If we look at the passage, where did the lusts originate? It says God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity. He gave them up to their own lusts. So is this yet another example of the sad state of mankind after the fall? Absolutely it is. It's this fallen man.

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But what did we also read earlier about who owns the sinful behavior. Just to be sure, who is the source of it? According to Romans 1.18, we read For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who, by their unrighteousness, suppress the truth. So whose unrighteousness suppress the truth? Men? It includes women too. He's just talking about mankind in general. But it's their unrighteousness, they own it. They have no excuse. They can't say God made me do this. And then how much ungodliness and unrighteousness is god's wrath on? Just a little bit of it, maybe once in a while, or all of it? All of it, right? What is the primary sin that we're dealing with here now? This is something to really think about.

Lenny: 13:44

He's going to mention a lot of sins in these passages coming, but what is the primary sin so far that we've been dealing with? It's unbelief. And just to clarify context are any of these people referenced considered in any way faithful in Yahweh? Is he talking about believers so far anywhere? Do you see him talk about Christians or believers anywhere in any of this so far? No, no, he's talking about ungodly, unfaithful, gospel-rejecting, fallen men. It's important to pay attention to that. Is there any reason at all to believe the people mentioned in these passages are faithful or saved. Any reason at all? No, these are unfaithful, non-regenerate people. We're going to want to know that, coming up and see why.

Lenny: 14:36

In verse 26, we read For this reason, god gave them up to dishonorable passions, for their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature, and the men likewise gave up natural relations. Going back to verse 25, what was the reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions? It was because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the creator. They rejected the truth. They rejected the gospel, right? It says he gave them up to dishonorable passions. Is this considered a judgment? I mean giving them up. That's an action word. I mean he's giving them up, he's doing something right. That's where some people say that he put this sin on them as a punishment. I don't see that, though. That would make God the author of sin. But is the giving up considered to be a judgment? Yeah, it is. It's a judgment. He's letting them suffer in sin, right?

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Do we see the same type of giving up at other times in scripture, though? You know what other times did Yahweh give people up to something. Well, at the fall of mankind, he took the spirit away from Adam and Eve. He never promised them that they would keep the spirit like in the new covenant age. They lost it, he took it away. He never promised them that they would keep the spirit like in the new covenant age. They lost it, he took it away. He told them not to eat from the tree. That was the consequence.

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Then the flood, seeing what was going on between the Nephilim and the watchers and the people, and it was crazy, total chaos. I'm flooding you guys out, starting over. Then at the Tower of Babel, they're building this ziggurat, worshiping watchers, worshiping the other gods, doing the opposite of what God told them to to go around the earth and inhabit the earth and spread out. They all stayed in one place and conspired against him. So he spread them out. Scattered nations scattered their languages, said I'm done with you, I'm giving you up to these lesser gods, right. And then we also see a judgment outside of Scripture. That was prophesied in Scripture the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem. God was done with Israel. National Israel was done. They were paying a price. Right. So giving them up is a judgment. It was a judgment of a spiritually dead, fallen mankind rejecting the truth.

Lenny: 17:11

Now the next questions might strike a nerve for many, but I believe we have to ask this question in order to make sense of what's written in our scripture. This one's not as tough. We'll start with the easy one. Is Yahweh the creator of all things in heaven and on earth? He's the creator. We learned that in our past studies. Plain and clear he's the creator of all things. That's what we believe as Christians. But here's the zinger Is Yahweh everyone's God? Is he the God of all people? I think it'd be easy to think that because he's the creator, he created everything, so he's everybody's god. Right, but that's not what he says.

Lenny: 17:49

We see a clear indication directly from Yahweh through his prophet Hosea. This was a judgment against the people of Israel. In Hosea 1 9 we read and the Lord said call his name, not my people, for you are not my people and I am not your god. Was yahweh considered the god of israel? Overall he was, but he just told him that he wasn't. Didn't he to national israel? Yahweh, through his prophet jeremiah, declared in jeremiah 32, 38 and they shall be my people and I will be their god. I will give them one heart and one way that they may fear me forever for their own good. We see the statement being made in other places as well. So this was to Israel. But were all of the people of national Israel God's holy people? Was this to every one of them? Was this a covenant to national Israel? No, it wasn't. It was a covenant to true Israel.

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I'm touching on this before we get there. It's a bit of a teaser. We're going to dive more into that topic in Romans 11 when we get there, but I also talk about it in episode number six from a couple years ago about the true Israel. It's going to be fun too to go back over that in chapter 11, do an updated episode on that.

Lenny: 19:17

But then getting back to the topic of handing over and sin, if the sin was produced by mankind, did Yahweh directly cause it? I asked this question quite a few times because I really want to drive this home. No, yahweh did not make anybody do this. Mankind sins pretty well on their own, without any help. And did mankind have an excuse according to verse 20? And no, if we go back in our Bible to verse 20, mankind is without excuse according to Paul.

Lenny: 19:49

But let's take a closer look at the details of the sin being described in these verses, we read. For this reason, god gave them up to dishonorable passions For their women, exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature. And the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another. Men committing what type of relations are considered contrary to nature here? Men with men and women with women? Anything that God didn't create to be that way? Men and women were created to be together sexually. Not men and men, not women with women. Anything that God didn't create to be that way. Men and women were created to be together sexually. Not men and men, not women and women. Paul's saying that's unnatural. Are relations contrary to nature honorable according to Paul in our passage? No, he's saying they're not honorable. That's not honorable. Men being with men and women with women it's unnatural and it's not honorable according to Paul.

Lenny: 20:48

Now, if the judgment was Yahweh withdrawing his mighty hand and basically saying I'm not dealing with you, I'm done with you, you go enjoy your sin and suffering, essentially letting them behave that way, then what's the due penalty? What is that action saying? When God says I'm done with you, that's a separation. You don't get to have this piece of my glory. You want to reject me? You get to suffer. You think that's what you want? Then have it Now.

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Many hold that the due penalty for the error is referring directly to homosexuality and its aids. It's something that happens within you. From that, some hold that the sin itself was a judgment to the people. But what was the error that initiated this judgment in the first place? By Yahweh, we read in verse 25, because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worship and serve the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. For this reason, god gave them up to dishonorable passions. For that reason, so was homosexuality itself the cause of the judgment, or was it rejecting the gospel? It was rejecting the gospel, wasn't it? They rejected the gospel, so God let them go to sin, and that was one of the sins they chose. Let's read on for some more details. In verse 28, we read and since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, god gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

Lenny: 22:25

Here we see again the reasoning for the judgment, as well as the penalty for their error. What was the error and what was the judgment? The error was rejecting God, rejecting the gospel, rejecting his truth. What was the penalty? Separation from God. If God gave him up to this sin. Is this sin pleasing to the Lord in any way? Was that something that was honorable or pleasing to him if he made it a penalty? No, not at all.

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Now here's a good question. Does Paul call homosexuals mentally ill? Is he implying at all that they're mentally ill, or is he just saying they're deeply sinful? He's calling it a sin, isn't he? Does giving up natural relations and being consumed with passion for one another sound like a good thing? No, he's not making this out to be a good thing at all.

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Does committing shameless acts describe taking pride in homosexual behavior? Yeah, I would say so. They're shameless about it. They're taking pride in it. They have no problem with it whatsoever. There is definitely a connotation that is directly applying to that, isn't there? Paul is saying that that's a non-regenerate, deeply sinful, fallen man behavior. Would that make homosexuality a godless behavior? Yeah, it does. That's what Paul's telling us plain and clear.

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Here's another big question Were these Christians committing these acts? Is he talking about Christians here? He's not, is not. Is he? We got to go back to our context. He's talking about non-regenerate men, isn't he? Yes, these are not christian homosexuals, just to be clear. And it does matter. And it matters because god's saying I'm done with you. Does he do that to christians? Does he say I'm done with you? Does he do that to christians? Does he say I'm done with you? I've not seen in scripture. But does everyone who rejects yahweh then become a homosexual because he's saying you reject me, I'm gonna hand you over to this stuff? In my opinion, the answer to that is pretty simple, though. No, obviously we don't look around and everybody rejects god as a homosexual, but it's a sin that people engage in. It's one of the sins that he lists, and later on we'll read about more of them. This is just the first one he brings up. We'll talk about that too. Why is it the first one? The next question is do we see Christians committing acts like these throughout Scripture? Do we see actual Christians committing these acts when we read Scripture? And the answer is yeah.

Lenny: 25:07

In 1 Corinthians, chapter 5, we read of sexual immorality of a really bad kind. Did Paul pat the man on the back who was indulging in sexual immorality in Corinth and causing others to take pride in him. Did Paul say good job, buddy. Hey, you know I got no problem with that. I don't want to get in the way of how you worship God. It's not up to me how you honor your Lord. You know I don't want to get between you and the Lord's relationship. No, he didn't say that at all. But did he say he was out of fellowship with God or not right with God in any way? And he didn.

Lenny: 25:45

But Paul did tell the church not to associate with this person who was taking pride in that behavior. It was causing a serious issue in the church. He actually had them remove the person from their group for a time and if you think about that for a moment, in those days that was more than just not being at church over the weekend. They lived among each other and they supported each other. He cast that guy out for a bit. He didn't say to make that person a pastor or a deacon. He wanted the issue to be dealt with, and pretty severely compared with other types of sin.

Lenny: 26:21

Pride and sexual immorality was not something that Paul took lightly. We see it clearly in scripture. This is a simple fact that we have to deal with Sin is sin. It's not unclear what sin is. If we study Scripture with our spiritual eyes open, if we study Scripture with pride, we miss the truth every time. Consider this for a moment.

Lenny: 26:43

If you're saying homosexuality is not sin, are you not saying God is a liar? Are you not proclaiming unbelief in Yahweh by declaring such a notion To a church being deceived into unbelief? John wrote in his first epistle if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. And then he goes on to say if we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar and his word is not in us. And then he goes on to say if we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar and his word is not in us. And that's 1 John 1, 8 and 10. Can we apply these passages to what we're reading about homosexuality? I just covered these passages in episode number 51 recently. But can we apply these passages to what we're reading about homosexuality? I say we can in the sense that you have people that are denying sin Absolutely.

Lenny: 27:36

What Paul is saying here about homosexuality is not true. You're going to say I mean, come on, is that even a real argument to have Christians going back to the spiritual, simple milk you know, the simple, spiritual milk of our faith, understanding what sin is. And we're going to argue about that. That doesn't make any sense. If we're going to help each other, we have to look at the truth about sin and its damaging consequences and effects. Sin is going to make people suffer.

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Do we make ourselves out to be unbelievers by taking pride in sin? Do we make ourselves out to be unbelievers? Yeah, we actually do. You look like you're rejecting the gospel. The gospel of salvation is that you were a sinner and you needed a savior. Knowing you're a sinner requires knowing what sin is, doesn't it? So you're going back to the beginning and basically saying, oh, you know that's not sin. Nope, that's not sin either. Everything's fine. I'm not saying that makes you an unbeliever.

Lenny: 28:40

Can we become unbelievers once we're regenerated? If you were born again and you start being silly and starting to say things aren't sin, are you unborn again because of that? No, you're still a christian. If you were regenerated, you were spiritually born. You can't reverse that and we got to deal with that as christians. There's people out there that act really foolish, but they might still be saved. That's not for us to judge, but we certainly don't have to hang out with the people that are going around promoting godlessness. Do we, do we help other Christians by proclaiming godlessness? Not at all. Will we suffer when we use our holy temples for sin of this magnitude and take pride in that? Yeah, we're going to suffer, we're going to suffer, and that's the truth.

Lenny: 29:28

Then, right in between these two passages, though, we read if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So how much unrighteousness is cleansed in us when we come to Christ, when we admit our sin to him at regeneration? That's what he's talking about here. When we say God, I'm a sinner, what happens? He cleanses us from all unrighteousness, and then we recognize that we're right with him. Now we see, okay, that's sin, that's bad, but I've been cleansed of all that. Now I can go on with my life honoring God. It is the point of the gospel to set you free from that bondage and put you into a place where you can honor the Lord. So does that make us right with God, being cleansed of all unrighteousness? It does, homosexual or not, when you come to Christ, you've been cleansed. If you believe the gospel, you've been cleansed. If you believe the gospel, you've been cleansed. You can't take that away.

Lenny: 30:33

I think it's extremely important, in light of the direction our society is heading today, that we do not approach Christian homosexuality as something that it's not. We have to address it for what it is. In 1 Corinthians 5, we see Paul's approach in regards to dealing with pride. Pride and sexual immorality is a serious issue in the church and it needs to be dealt with. But on the other side of things, I was deeply disturbed when Melissa told me a story she had heard about a Christian who was struggling with homosexuality.

Lenny: 31:03

This guy was so troubled by his sin that he preferred severe illness that would lead to death over being out of fellowship with Yahweh. The man had AIDS and didn't want the Lord to spare him because he knew he would go back to his sin. It was an addiction, a deep, terrible addiction beyond words. According to his account, he wanted to die in fellowship with God Because he was currently not able to commit the sin due to AIDS. So he was in fellowship in his mind, rather than surviving and being out of fellowship and continuing in that sin. You see what I'm saying. He believed he was out of fellowship with God. He believed he was disconnected. God had turned away from him when he stopped the sin due to AIDS. He now believes he's in fellowship because he's not committing the sin anymore and he's afraid of committing again when he gets better, because he knew he was going to. He's believing he's in and out of fellowship based on his behavior.

Lenny: 32:01

From the view of the gospel of grace, this man was a saint who was struggling with sin, genuinely struggling with sin and the church let him believe that the one person who could actually help him had turned away from him. He was even told that he didn't love God and that was the reason for his behavior. To that kind of theology we have to ask how much love do we need to stay in fellowship with God? How many sins does it take to be out of fellowship and, most importantly, what methods do we take to get back in? Are we going to ask for forgiveness? That's religion. That's all just religion. They didn't even ask for forgiveness in the Old Covenant. They had to make animal sacrifices and shed blood In Hebrews. In the new covenant he says Christ shed his blood once and for all. If you want forgiveness, there has to be bloodshed. That's the way God works. God's never worked on a basis of ask me for forgiveness. That's never been the covenant that's made up religion.

Lenny: 33:06

So can we out-sin grace? Are we going to go beyond our grace with our sin and suddenly we're going to be in a bad place? Is there a sin limit that God has set for the Christian and we got to stay within those confines? If we can be out of fellowship based on sin, how do you even know you're in it right now? How do you ever know you're in it based on sin? How do you even know you're in it right now? How do you ever know you're in it? Do you realize how holy God is? Do you realize how awful and wretched sin is to our Lord? You can't afford to be out of fellowship. That's why we're never told that in Scripture. We need God. How can we be good enough for salvation but then we have God angry with us? Where do we see any of this in scripture? We don't.

Lenny: 33:50

Being in and out of fellowship with God is something that is made up due to a terrible misinterpretation. If we're going to rebuke sin, we have to do it within the confines of infinite grace. God's amazing full grace. We have to deal with that. People are saved. God's amazing full grace. We have to deal with that. People are saved. People are in fellowship with God too.

Lenny: 34:11

It's important to understand that our Romans passage there's never a bridge burned. God has never turned away from you, waiting for some kind of behavior from you to make that change so that he'll turn his face towards you again. That's the age of grace. That's why the new covenant is a new and better covenant. If all that wasn't true, then what did Christ even do? What actually changed from the old covenant to the new covenant? Think about that. It just makes no sense.

Lenny: 34:42

It's important to understand that our Romans passage today was not referring to Christian homosexuals being handed over to sin by God. God isn't saying to Christian homosexuals I'm done with you, I'm handing you over to that sin. It was not about Yahweh saying I'm done with you to any Christian. Our Father does not deal with us this way. As Christians, we have a new and better covenant the purifying blood of Christ and the life of his resurrection. To this point, paul tells the church in Corinth Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. Don't be deceived Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revelers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Lenny: 35:30

Do you think that he starts with sexual immorality? For a reason? I definitely believe he did, because we'll notice in our next study that Paul does the same thing here in Romans. He begins with sexual immorality and then goes on to other sin. And he does it in other areas too, and we'll talk about that in the next passage. There's definitely something there. We see it in Corinth. He deals with that person much more severely. He's not kicking people out of their group every time somebody sins, just going wild.

Lenny: 36:07

No, that was a deep sin according to Paul, and it was all to do with the pride and the level of the sin. But Paul certainly comes down harder on sexual immorality. We see that in his churches. We see that in chapter 5 of the same letter to the Corinthians. So are some sins more destructive than others? Is the question. Why is Paul coming down so hard on this one? Are some sins more destructive than others? Yeah, do some sins cause more suffering than others? Absolutely. Do some sins disrupt a church more than others. Yeah, think about that. Think of sexual immorality and the disruption it causes, the suffering it causes. Our Lord fully accepts you all the time, right now, anytime but this doesn't mean he's proud of your sin, and you shouldn't be either. Taking pride in sin is calling God a liar.

Lenny: 37:04

What does Paul say to the Corinthians who were struggling with sexual immorality? At the end of this passage in verse 11? He says and such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and the Spirit of God. Does this mean they stopped doing those things as Christians? If you read the letter right back there again, in chapter 5, they were having some issues with that, weren't they? So he's basically saying that's all behind you now You've been washed and sanctified.

Lenny: 37:37

Why is he saying that? For the same reason we're going back and forth the consequences of sin, how much Yahweh hates sin, how destructive sin is. But then you've got to go back to how clean you are from sin and how perfect you are from the blood of Christ. He's washed you so that you can keep a clear mind and get it together and pray to him for help, pray to him for guidance. We may be free in grace, but we should not be free of his guidance. If we set ourselves free from his guidance, we're going to find ourselves right back in bondage to sin, aren't we? So how can they be the ones who enter the kingdom? Is it because they stopped sinning? No, it's because they were washed by their belief in Christ. So what takes Christians out of judgment and into justification? Because all these things that he mentioned, he was just talking about non-regenerate man. He's saying that's a penalty, that's a judgment. What takes us out of that? And suddenly we're justified? Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Lenny: 38:43

When we tell Christians that they are out of fellowship, that they don't love God, god has turned his face away from you. We water down grace. That's just the truth. Grace is bigger than your sin and you cannot out-sin grace. Got to deal with that. We're in perfect fellowship with God now, but does sin hinder our relationship with God? Let me repeat that once more. We are in perfect fellowship with God as Christians. But does sin hinder our relationship with God? And I say yes. And let me explain.

Lenny: 39:21

Let's start with the next question. Why might sin hinder our relationship with the Father. What would make sin hinder our relationship with the Father? What would make sin hinder our relationship with the Father? Can you think of something? If you were deep into sin, if you just fell into something bad? You fell into a rut and you were just deep in what would be the primary issue going on between you and the Father. He just kind of disappears into the background of your life, doesn't he?

Lenny: 39:49

When you fall into sin, when you lose your focus, when you're not following the Spirit's guidance anymore, when you're not listening and following that lead, we rock our relationship. Why? Because God turned his face away from us. No, because we turn our faces away from his guidance, faces away from his guidance. We ignore and become ignorant to the leading of the Spirit of God. He tells us one thing, and it goes in one ear and out the other, and we don't care, we just continue on our way. We turn away from his guidance and turn to our own desires. Right, that's what's happening To the Galatians, paul writes.

Lenny: 40:35

For you were called to freedom. Brothers Only, do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love, serve one another, for the whole law is fulfilled in one word you shall love your neighbor as yourself. But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you're not consumed by one another. But I say, walk by the Spirit. What benefit are we going to receive if we use our freedom for sin? None at all, right? None at all. If we're going to turn away from God, we're going to receive the same benefit as the people that are in bondage to their sin. Right, the non-regenerate, who are just in bondage to their sin and indulging in it and suffering. We're going to suffer with them.

Lenny: 41:16

If we do those things, if you turn away from the guidance of the Spirit, we're going to start being guided by the flesh. We're going to start going away from the Lord's guidance if we stop following it, aren't we? We're free in grace. God has set us free from our sins. But in Paul's analogy he tells us we're either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. We're going to get to that later too. We may be free from sin, but the door is still open and we can walk back in. Just go right in there and suffer with the rest of the world. The door is wide open. You can go out anytime. He set you free from that. You're not in bondage to that anymore.

Lenny: 41:54

But there's a reason that Paul says that you are a slave to righteousness now. He's not telling you that you should be free of God's guidance. He's saying that you're a slave to righteousness now. You've been bought at a price. You're owned by the Lord so that we should honor God with our lives. He paid our way out of prison. Why would you want to go back into that cell?

Lenny: 42:17

Why does Paul remind them that the law was fulfilled in love? I think it's just reminding them of Christ and what he did. The law was fulfilled in Christ and his love. So what does Paul recommend to the Christian? He says walk by the Spirit and you won't gratify the desires of the flesh. So is this like saying be guided by the love of God, be guided by the Spirit of God, not sinful desires. Yeah, that's exactly what he's saying Be led by truth and spirit, not error and sin. But will we just stop sinning according to this passage? No, he says that you won't gratify the desires of the flesh. The power of sin becomes very weak when we know the truth and when we live by the truth. It doesn't have the same effect anymore when it's brought into the light.

Lenny: 43:11

Galatians 5.17,. For the desires of the flesh are against the spirit and the desires of the spirit are against the flesh, for they are opposed to each other to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the spirit, you're not under law. According to this passage, will sinful behavior bear spiritual blessings? No, it's going to be the opposite. Are Christians led by the Spirit according to this passage? Yeah, he's saying you're not under law if you're led by the Spirit. Christians aren't under law. So he's saying you're led by the Spirit, but does that mean they always follow the Spirit? Does being led by the Spirit, having the Spirit leading you, mean that you're always following? Would Paul instruct the church to walk by the Spirit if it was not possible to? This is something that you really got to realize here. He's not saying this because it's automatic. He's telling his church to walk by the Spirit because it's something that they need to learn and grow in. They need to develop and mature in this truth.

Lenny: 44:13

In Galatians 5.25 we read If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. We see Paul mentioning walking by the Spirit again here in this section of his writing in Galatians, does it seem like Paul puts a strong emphasis on walking by the Spirit? Yeah, absolutely he does, doesn't he? And do you think this is just automatic? Again, no, this is not automatic.

Lenny: 44:37

Does Paul seem to describe two different things and living by the Spirit and walking by the Spirit. Yeah, christians always live by the Spirit. The Spirit's living in us, but are we always following its lead or are we being ignorant? That's the Spirit. The Spirit's living in us, but are we always following its lead or are we being ignorant? That's the question. And Paul's saying walk by the Spirit. What are the differences? Living by the Spirit is living, breathing as a Christian. Walking by the Spirit is being guided by the Lord. That's not automatic. Paul is not telling you that the Lord wants you to just go live your life how you want to live it and he'll just be hanging out with you like your buddy. No, he's guiding. If we take the guidance out of Christianity and we free Christianity from the guidance of the Holy Spirit, what good are we doing anybody? Oh, I'm free man. Hey, dude, let's go hang out and just be Christians. That's ridiculous.

Lenny: 45:33

How do we honor Yahweh by not being guided by him by not learning from him. What is sin to him, what is honorable to him? And, as we've talked about in the past, why wouldn't we focus on things that are honorable to him? We see what's not. There's plenty of honorable things to focus on. When we focus on pleasing the Lord, you're just going to find that the things that aren't pleasing him aren't beneficial anymore. This isn't beneficial for me. I'm done with that. I got to pray for this. I got to give this up. God will help us. He can do anything. So what harm do you see in promoting and taking pride in what is clearly sin? Well, there's a lot of harm.

Lenny: 46:16

We were just reading that the due penalty for error, the error of unbelief, is Yahweh. Being done with them. They're being filled with the lusts of their hearts, filled with it. Are those things still going to happen to the Christian if they turn away from Yahweh and reject his ways and stop following his lead? Sadly, yes.

Lenny: 46:38

The internal conflict that you have that we were just reading about, the spirit battling the flesh. They're in opposition to each other. That's what's going on in the Christian heart when you're deep in sin. There's a struggle going on there that a non-believer, a non-regenerate man who's just filled with his lusts of his heart is not going to have. There's an internal conflict, because you are a holy vessel of God, you are a holy temple and you're defiling your own temple. Think about that. Think about the suffering. Your own temple. Think about that. Think about the suffering. Think about how unbeneficial that's going to be for our walk with God by putting bad sacrifices in our temples. It's terrible. It's terrible when we look at that.

Lenny: 47:22

But then again, on the other hand, what harm do you see in the doctrine that puts Christians having genuine struggles with sin out of fellowship with God? What harm is there in breaking that bond with them and saying, no, you burned that bridge, you're out of fellowship, don't plan on getting back in. Until you fix that issue, god's not going to be there for you. What harm can you see in that you take away the Lord? How are you going to get any help? Go fix this on your own. Isn't that what the Lord is supposed to be there for?

Lenny: 47:57

Do more damaging sins like sexual immorality and pride draw us further out of focus of the will of our Lord? You get deep into these sins. Sexual immorality is a deep sin. It's a deep desire that comes within. It consumes you. So what happens when you're consumed in sin? What happens? We turn our face away from the Lord, turn our face away from his guidance.

Lenny: 48:19

When you go down a road that the Lord isn't instructing you to go down, we're going to learn from that. We have an alternative, non-regenerate man. God's saying I'm done with you. Be thankful that you have the Lord, be thankful that you're in perfect fellowship with the Lord and you can go to him, because we need him. All of us need him. We need him all the time.

Lenny: 48:44

And Paul's saying walk by the Spirit. He's saying keep him in focus, keep honoring the Lord in focus. Let's honor him, let's give thanks to him, just turning our backs, putting him in the background and saying, gee, thanks God for forgiving me my sins, and carrying on with our lives however we see fit, without even considering what he would want for us. That's not honoring the Lord. Being guided by the Spirit is how we honor the Lord. Ask the Lord what he would want for us. That's not honoring the Lord. Being guided by the Spirit is how we honor the Lord. Ask the Lord what he wants from you. Ask the Lord to guide you in what he wants. You'll see your life change when you start doing that. Tell him you want to serve him, tell him you want to help him.

Lenny: 49:23

And on this note, if we compare sin with drugs, are some drugs more consuming and more addictive than others? Yeah, I think that's what we see with sexual immorality. All sin is bad, right, but is any drug good to abuse? If sin is cool to drugs, are any of them good to abuse? You can abuse alcohol or you can abuse and inject heroin. Heroin injection is going to get you addicted very quickly, right? Alcohol is going to take time. Do you want to abuse any of them and become consumed in them? No, you don't. But if somebody starts getting into heroin, it's alert, alert, stop that. You are going to get hooked. Don't do that right. It's a bigger deal. It's not just a gentle rebuke. That's why I think Paul dealt with that that way. He didn't want harm done to that man or the church. And the cool thing is in his second letter it seems that that guy came back around Then in Ephesians we read Therefore, be careful how you walk, not as unwise men, but as wise, making the most of your time because the days are evil.

Lenny: 50:30

So then, do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. Do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord, jesus Christ. To God, even the Father. That's Ephesians 5.15. Great passage.

Lenny: 50:55

In the beginning of Paul's letters to the Romans, he writes I'm not ashamed of the gospel. Can you think of a couple reasons someone might have shamed Paul for the gospel and tried to make him feel ashamed? Think about the Jews and the Gentiles. Would the Jews have thought he was condoning sinful ways by preaching grace instead of works? Yeah, he was accused of that. He writes about it in his letters. They thought he was giving people a license to sin, but as we read here, it doesn't sound like he is, does it? He's not telling people go sin. He's saying you're free of sin, but you're going to suffer. Would the gentiles have been upset for being called out on sin? Yeah, that'd be the other side.

Lenny: 51:36

Paul is not afraid to call out sin and tell the truth about sin. That's part of not being ashamed of the gospel, isn't it? If you're ashamed to call out sin, if you're ashamed to admit what sin is and hold to what god sees as sin, if we're to back down in an argument about that and let people tell us what sin is and it isn't, we're not holding to the gospel. Why are we ashamed of this? Sin is sin. We should be recognizing it in our own lives. This is how we look at ourselves, to make sure that we're not causing a stumbling block for other people, right? How can we even know what to do if we don't even know what sin is and we start blurring the lines with that?

Lenny: 52:14

Today's movements going on in the church are just ridiculous. Come on, people. In our last study, we learned that God judges mankind by the gospel. We also know that we cannot out-sin his amazing grace, don't we? We can't out-sin grace. Based on this, though, can we say that those taking pride in homosexuality are ashamed of the gospel? Yeah, they don't want to hear about God's view of sin. Put that away. I don't want to hear that. That's stupid. Can we also conclude that those that say God's grace does not extend to those who are struggling with that sin are also ashamed of the gospel. Yeah, they can't deal with the fact that people can be saved and still sin. They can't deal with the fact that God is still going to be there for them. That's just ridiculous. They need God. People need God that are struggling with sin. When you take him out of the picture and you say you're out of fellowship, you just told them that he ain't helping you. Come on, think about that.

Lenny: 53:18

Let's end by considering the story of the prodigal son from Luke 15, 11 through 32. I'm not going to go into the whole storyline of the prodigal son today, but when we look at the story, we see a son who has turned away from his father and gone off on his own to fulfill his own selfish desires. When the son came back to his father, his father was thrilled and wanted to celebrate. The father never turned away from his son. The son turned away from him and when he came back, the father received him with joy. While he was away, the father was him with joy. While he was away, the father was grieving.

Lenny: 53:57

The spirit of God grieves for us. You're grieving the spirit of God when we sin. Why? Why are we grieving the spirit of God? Is it because he's ready to punish us and paddle us. No, it's because he cares about you. You're grieving him because he cares. God's going to use all this bad and turn it into good, because that's what he does. He's going to make something out of everything that you do. That's garbage, but the more garbage you put in your life, the more you're going to suffer. That's just the way it is. If we're going to suffer, we should suffer for the Lord. There's a deeper context to the prodigal son. It's very much a Jew and Gentile passage, but I also see a view of how our Heavenly Father is dealing with Christians who fall into sin under the new covenant of grace that he's provided for us. The Father was waiting with open arms. So that's what I got for you today, guys. I hope you guys have a good day out there and I'll talk to you next week.

Announcement: 54:47

Thank you for listening to the Waking Up to Grace podcast brought to you by the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ. If you enjoyed today's episode, we would love to hear from you. You can send encouragement our way right from our episodes and transcripts page or reach Lenny privately from the contact form.