announcement: 0:01

Hello and welcome to the Waking Up to Grace podcast, where we celebrate and explore the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ. Tune in to the Waking Up to Grace podcast on every major platform. You can also listen to our episodes and read our full transcripts at wakinguptogracecom. And now here's Lenny.

Lenny: 0:22

Welcome back to the podcast, everyone, good morning. Today we're going to be continuing our study on. Welcome back to the podcast, everyone, good morning. Today we're going to be continuing our study on Paul's letter to the Romans and our focus is going to be on Romans, chapter 1, verses 8 through 15. I wanted to mention that the last episode and this episode were doing things a little bit differently. We actually put together a study guide to go through and Melissa and I are going to be going through it and giving our answers based on what we see in the passages as we go. This study guide can be found at wakinguptogracecom on the episodes page that I link to in the podcast description.

Lenny: 1:00

Another thought I had is, if you wanted to go about this in a study fashion, you could pause it whenever we ask a question and think about the answer to yourself before you hear us talking about it and see if that helps at all. Love it. So, going into these verses 8 through 15. In the first chapter of Romans, verse 9 really stood out to me. You want to read that, melissa.

Melissa: 1:25

For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing, I mention you always in my prayers.

Lenny: 1:36

So the topic just like last week, we're going to be continuing is prayer. Did you know that we have a window into Paul's prayer that we can look through in our scripture? In our Romans passage, we see Paul saying that he prays for them without ceasing and is always mentioning them in his prayers. So wouldn't it be insightful to hear what his prayers might have sounded like? My answer is a great big yes. So how would you like to join me on a study on Paul's prayers?

Melissa: 2:05

I'm in.

Lenny: 2:05

Well, let's dig in then, shall we? Our first passage that we're going to look at comes from Ephesians, chapter 1, verses 15 through 23.

Melissa: 2:15

For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers.

Lenny: 2:33

That's the same verse that he used in Romans. Are you noticing a theme from a Romans passage that carries into this passage about prayer? He doesn't cease. I see that, but then I also see this thing of giving thanks. So he's starting out. Whenever he's mentioning prayer, it seems that almost always he's talking about giving thanks.

Melissa: 2:57

Good observation.

Lenny: 2:58

He seems very thankful and that seems to be the mindset he wants to pass on to people, wouldn't you say?

Melissa: 3:05

Yes, giving thanks and not ceasing to do so.

Lenny: 3:08

So that's like the first thing that he thinks about when Paul says prayer. He thinks thankfulness. So do you think Paul's consistent attitude of thankfulness displays a God-honoring mindset that we should also strive?

Melissa: 3:22

to have in our lives, absolutely.

Lenny: 3:24

And why? Why do you think that?

Melissa: 3:26

Well, I can say I think that because of recent happenings in our life and trying that on for size myself and seeing how great it feels to start prayer with thankfulness, yeah, I would agree.

Lenny: 3:42

And just all the things that go on around us in the body of Christ that you see in your life. We see, and you guys out there are seeing things, I'm sure, as Christians in your life how God is at work through the body and then even directly to us, and just giving thanks for that and having a thankful attitude seems to be what Paul's trying to help us, along with a little bit to see things in that light.

Melissa: 4:08

Because there's always something to be thankful for, isn't there?

Lenny: 4:11

I agree. So why do you think Paul might never cease in his prayers and why does he always mention this? When we study the multitude of passages regarding prayer in Paul's letters, we see for ourselves that the theme of giving thanks to God and never ceasing to pray for the saints is echoed throughout all of his prayers. Paul is constantly thankful and regularly praying for his brothers and sisters. Why do you think that Paul would never cease and why do you think he would mention this to them? Why would he be always mentioning to them I never stop praying for you guys. What do you think that we can learn from that?

Melissa: 4:51

That it's very important for the body to remain focused on Christ and build each other up in Christ every moment of every day in this life.

Lenny: 5:03

We need each other every moment of every day in this life. We need each other, yeah, and that thought process is guiding us to live holy lives. I would say, why is he mentioning that he always prays and that he never ceases to pray for them? Because it's keeping him in grace living, it's keeping him in that mindset of thankfulness.

Melissa: 5:23

So then you're not letting the world get a foothold on you?

Lenny: 5:26

Exactly. He's displaying that his mind is in tune to the Spirit.

Melissa: 5:32

Yes.

Lenny: 5:32

And that's not really something that stops for Paul. As we continue in our Ephesians passage, we get to observe the content of Paul's prayer. We get to see the things that he desired for the Ephesians through his prayer.

Melissa: 5:47

That the God of our Lord, Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious. So our first question is would you say.

Lenny: 6:17

Paul is looking beyond the simple understanding of Christ Yeshua that brought the saints in Ephesus to salvation.

Melissa: 6:25

That's a great big yes.

Lenny: 6:28

Yeah, I would agree. He's not just talking about the knowledge that they had when they came to Christ. He's talking about something that builds and something that grows, isn't he?

Melissa: 6:38

He is. He's encouraging them to desire to know all there is to know about Yahweh, encouraging them to desire to know all there is to know about Yahweh.

Lenny: 6:45

So what do you think the hope was that the saints at that time were called to? What were they hoping for that was going to happen? It would have had to have been something they didn't already have. It was something that was promised that hadn't come. The coming of Christ, the return of Christ, the return of Christ Right when he came, he was going to bring salvation to all the saints. That was going to be when they got resurrected from the dead and brought to life. See, they were promised life. They had the Spirit, the life-giving Spirit of Christ living in them, but the resurrection was not going to take place until the second coming. There was no life for the dead until the second coming. So they were hoping for that to happen.

Melissa: 7:34

There was still Sheol at that time where they would go, and the saints of old had gone.

Lenny: 7:39

Yep, and they were aware of that. They knew that they were going to face a physical death and then have to wait, and they were waiting in hopes that that second coming would come, because christ defeated death, but he hadn't opened the doors to heaven and life to the saints yet and that's a really powerful point.

Lenny: 8:01

We no longer die, exactly, saints no longer die yeah, it's a very important we now go right to heaven people don't think about that without the second coming, you don't go right to heaven there would have been a death for us, which was defeated, but there's still that waiting so the next question, shifting the focus a little bit where do you think they would find the riches and immeasurable greatness that would enlighten their hearts?

Melissa: 8:31

By focusing and depending on Yeshua.

Lenny: 8:36

They're going to find that in Christ right. They're going to find that in the depth of the gospel Not just the gospel that they heard immediately there was a revelation there, their eyes were open but Paul's describing a further depth after salvation, after regeneration, that continues to grow and we're going to see that theme throughout his prayers and as we read on.

Melissa: 9:01

According to the working of his great might, that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

Lenny: 9:37

So do you think that Paul in this passage is describing here the things that they hoped for, the things that were coming? Yes, because he says not only in this age, but also in the one to come. The things that they have now are going to carry into the next age as well, but it's going to be more complete in the next age. See, the new covenant had begun, but there was a transition going on. They were still living in the old covenant age when the new covenant began. They overlapped, and so when the new age came, there was great benefits to that.

Melissa: 10:15

Absolutely.

Lenny: 10:16

So yeah, he's describing what they hoped for. They already had the promise, the seal of what they hoped for, the spirit of Christ living in them. So that leads us to the next question. Can you see Paul proclaiming some of the riches and immeasurable greatness that would enlighten their hearts here? Yes, we read about that in the last passage. He's talking about the working of his great might, that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, above every name that is named, all things under his feet. He's explaining parts of these depths to them.

Melissa: 11:02

Who their God is.

Lenny: 11:02

What the immeasurable greatness is the resurrection of the dead Christ, defeating death, the coming resurrection and the already defeated death that Christ defeated. He was going to be defeating it for the saints soon, according to scripture. Would you say that resurrection, life is a major component in our faith as Christians? Would you say that?

Melissa: 11:25

resurrection life is a major component in our faith as Christians. Absolutely, it's like everything.

Lenny: 11:27

Yeah, that is the faith. That's why it's not religion, because we have life. Christ gives us life. That's the essence of Christianity. Yes, it is that life that is in us now. We have that now. They hope for it and we have the complete version of it now.

Melissa: 11:48

Yahweh is the only God to deliver in such a way.

Lenny: 11:53

Absolutely so. What did resurrection life have to do with the church in Ephesus If Christ had not raised the dead yet?

Melissa: 12:01

It was important to understand their hope and what was to come.

Lenny: 12:04

Yeah, we kind of touched on that. They had the seal of the spirit, the promise of that life. The spirit gave them the promise of that. It reconciled them to God. It's a big deal that they had reconciliation to God. They were right with God, ready for the resurrection now, but the resurrection life had not been given yet so, as they were inching closer to 70 ad, the destruction of jerusalem and christ's second coming.

Melissa: 12:31

It was going to get very, very dark, very, very difficult, and paul was encouraging them to remember what they had, the hope they had, what was to come and a great light would be shining in that darkness, as dark as that time was.

Lenny: 12:47

during that destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, the light of life was going to be illuminated for the saints at that time through the fiery inferno. God works through darkness. He shows us light through darkness, doesn't he?

Melissa: 13:03

He does, and that's the only way to really get through it. Focusing on the light.

Lenny: 13:09

Our next passages come from the third chapter of Paul's letter to the Ephesians, verses 14 through 21.

Melissa: 13:16

For this reason, I bow my knees before the Father.

Lenny: 13:20

So stopping there. The question is do you think Paul meant this literally? Is Paul teaching us a posture for humble prayer, a posture that maybe he actually used? I would say yes. I would say yes as well. Paul's showing us that he was humbly praying, literally bowing his knees before the Father. This wasn't just his thought life. I think it's important under grace to realize that our thought prayers count. But Paul's displaying intentional prayers. He did both. He was living in thought prayer and he was also living by intentional prayer. I think that's important to realize. That means there's a benefit to it. It doesn't mean it's a rule. You're going to start making a list of all the things you have to do every day, but if we discipline ourselves and make our own rules for ourselves based on our freedom, I don't see any problem with that, as long as you know that that's not the rule to fellowship, the rule to salvation. But these are things that benefit us. These are things that are going to be proven because Paul did it.

Melissa: 14:25

Right, and as you're saying that I kind of think about love in a marriage, I can tell you that I love you with words. I can display it by spending time with you. Sometimes I just need to wrap my arms around you. There's different ways.

Lenny: 14:40

Yeah, so we have all these ways to connect with God.

Melissa: 14:46

And in recent times you and I've been talking about posture, and I've found that in times of desperation, sometimes all you can do is fall to your knees, and the peace that comes is really surprising those are special moments.

Lenny: 15:00

It really surprised me, yeah, and you just think, well, maybe I want more of that.

Melissa: 15:04

Mm-hmm.

Lenny: 15:05

And we can do that.

Melissa: 15:07

From whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith.

Lenny: 15:24

Do you see Paul displaying the sovereign power of Yahweh as creator here?

Melissa: 15:29

I do.

Lenny: 15:30

He absolutely does. He's saying from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named. That's Yahweh. He named everything, he created everything. The thankfulness that we talk about, being thankful, paul's theme of being thankful, also glorifying God when we pray is very meaningful and a very fun way to connect with the Lord. So Paul's saying to himself and to the church the one who named everything, the one who created everything and you see that said so much about Yahweh in Scripture he is the creator of all things. Through him, all things were created. Without him, nothing that exists would exist right.

Melissa: 16:13

So they're praising them, they're glorifying them and we talked about how important names were in that time. At that time it was a big thing to say son of such and such. Your name was your identity, and so christ is our identity. That's a really big deal and he named us.

Lenny: 16:33

He named us. He named us saints. He named us a new creation. He named us his brothers and sisters. Right when we glorify him, we actually understand our identity. So don't we already have Christ dwelling in us? By faith, though? What does Paul mean by this?

Melissa: 16:53

He dwells in us. But if we don't really understand who it is that's dwelling in us, then there's a big gap there, there's a big lacking exactly that's exactly what he's saying.

Lenny: 17:07

he's saying that he wants them to be strengthened with the power through his spirit in their inner being so that christ may dwell in their hearts through faith. So Christ is already dwelling in us and to me I see just an example of the things that we talk about often in our podcasts that there's the belief that saved you and then the belief that we continue in. That builds us up in grace, the grace living belief, the constant belief and the building on that belief.

Melissa: 17:39

Constantly waking up to more and more.

Lenny: 17:40

Yeah, so christ is in the core of our being, but is he on the forefront of our mind? Heart and mind can be interchangeable in a sense, but the heart is like the core of the mind, it's like what's producing those thoughts. It goes a little deeper, but if we hold to that and live by that faith, that's in our hearts, it's on the forefront of our mind. That would be more like being filled with it right From the inner being to the outer being.

Melissa: 18:07

Yes, absolutely. I just had a thought that it's reminding me of. If somebody didn't understand our currency, let's say, or somebody didn't understand the value of money, and you gave them a million dollars, and so they have it, put it in a box, and they know it's supposed to be special, but they don't know how to use it. They don't know what it really means and what the value really is, then it's just going to stay in that box and they're not really going to think about it. They're not going to benefit from it.

Lenny: 18:43

Yeah.

Melissa: 18:43

So it kind of reminds me of that.

Lenny: 18:45

You gave it to them and you told them this is valuable and they believed you Right. But they never really went on to understand just how valuable it was.

Melissa: 18:53

Right.

Lenny: 18:54

Yeah, that's definitely what we're seeing here. And then he continues on.

Melissa: 18:58

That you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Lenny: 19:18

That one's kind of a tongue twister. It makes me want to say breadth, length, height and depth, but it's just height. I think I did that in an episode. Oh, that's great, but the question is, would you agree that this passage helps explain the previous one? I would, yeah, he's kind, explain the previous one I would.

Lenny: 19:38

Yeah, he's kind of explaining what he meant by that. He's not telling them that you don't understand the gospel. He's not telling them that you weren't saved by the gospel. You need to understand this so you can be saved. He wasn't telling them that he's wanting them rooted and grounded in it.

Melissa: 19:53

Rooted and grounded and having the strength wow to comprehend.

Lenny: 19:59

It takes strength to comprehend so what do you pray for? I'd be praying for that strength. Yes, I want to be filled with that, right, right.

Melissa: 20:10

So that's something we can pray for and I'm thinking about how amazing the temple was in jerusalem at that time and remember all the passages in the old testament where everything down to a t, to the tiniest bread, length, height, depth yeah, was all calculated to them and it had to be exact yeah and so I'm thinking about that's got to be part of why he mentioned that, because everyone knew how magnificent that temple was yeah, you're probably right time that temple was built spiritually, but with human hands right the temple of christ, the true temple, the true israel, the spiritual temple that our bodies are with the christ dwelling in them, is amazing.

Lenny: 20:55

A lot of people don't realize just how amazing that is, that that temple you're describing, we're the spiritual version that's not built with human hands. We're part of that and Christ is the head.

Melissa: 21:07

Amen, and I was a Christian a very long time before I gave that any thought.

Lenny: 21:12

It's so amazing. So the next question how can we know the love that surpasses knowledge without knowledge? I thought that was kind of interesting. You read that passage and he says and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge. So you have to know it in order to surpass the knowledge. You have to have knowledge to surpass knowledge. Isn't that interesting?

Melissa: 21:37

Yeah.

Lenny: 21:39

So how do we get this?

Melissa: 21:41

Yeah, we can't know it without praying for it, focusing on it.

Lenny: 21:46

Exactly. That's true, but the other truth is that it takes knowledge to rise above knowledge. It takes spiritual knowledge in order to rise above knowledge.

Melissa: 21:57

So is he saying, to spiritually know the love of Christ that surpasses worldly knowledge.

Lenny: 22:03

I would say yeah, I think that's a perfect example. I would say think of all the knowledge that the first century Jews had, Think of all the knowledge they had of God, and yet they rejected their own messiah they were taught to memorize they knew scripture, scripture yeah, young age and I'm all for people saying you should read your bible, but if you take that to a certain level where reading your bible and having biblical knowledge is the only way to grow, that that's not true.

Lenny: 22:34

Understanding your Bible is more important than reading it, because the first century Jews were way smarter than us about Scripture and yet they weren't saved many of them. They couldn't see the truth.

Melissa: 22:48

We can't lean on our own understanding. It's not about our knowledge. It's about the knowledge that Christ gives us and we can pray for that. So Christ is the knowledge that christ gives us and we can pray for that.

Lenny: 22:57

So christ is the knowledge that surpasses knowledge. Knowledge of christ surpasses all knowledge. If you know christ, you are in reality. The rest of the world has no clue. We're lost that's a very good way to say it is being filled with all the fullness of God, being filled with his love. Could those things be similar to each other?

Melissa: 23:23

Well, it would have to, because if you have all the fullness of God, certainly you have his love.

Lenny: 23:28

Yeah, he's talking about. The love of Christ is what surpasses knowledge. The love that Christ displayed for us is what surpasses knowledge. And then, right after that, he's saying be filled with all the fullness of God. That's the love of God. It's got to be and so I think you could also say pray to understand the love of God and here's even better question for you do you think we can be completely full of the love of God?

Melissa: 23:56

I think we can, because Paul says that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Lenny: 24:02

Why would he say that? I've come to think of that in a sense, like I was saying earlier, where it's like when our inner mind that comes from Christ is being connected with the forefront of our mind. So, yeah, I believe we can be completely full of this. I believe it's when we're in grace, when we're living in thankfulness for what God did for us, and not living in religion.

Melissa: 24:31

Agreed and, as you're saying that, I'm thinking I wonder if we ever can be completely full in this life, because I do think it's a be completely full in this life, because I do think it's a lifelong journey, learning the depths. It is the breadth, the length, the height, the depth, so maybe completely full is heaven.

Lenny: 24:49

I think it depends on context, Because we see both views coming from Paul and we'll see it more as we read further on. There's a fullness that we can have and then there's a fullness that we're seeking because we're always growing. So it's used in different ways and in different contexts. Kind of like Paul uses walking by the spirit, the spiritual do walk by the spirit, but then in another sense, we're not always walking by the spirit.

Melissa: 25:16

Sometimes we're looking at the flesh so another way to say it could be on god's, on yahweh's end. Because of yeshua, we are always walking by the spirit. We are completely full we're spiritual beings on a spiritual level we are, but to understand that fully, to fully understand how full we are, how close and walking with Yeshua we are, that's a lifelong journey, it seems.

Lenny: 25:47

Our understanding. It's an infinite depth. I would say that full understanding of grace. But understanding it and building on it and just understanding it fills you with everything you need. You have everything you need.

Melissa: 26:02

That's an exciting journey to be on.

Lenny: 26:04

So you're full already as you're filling your tank. I wish I had a car that operated like that. I know you do. You hate to stop and forget. I know you do.

Melissa: 26:15

You hate to stop and forget? Next question Do you think that the common Christian today realizes the power of the resurrection life of Christ. No, because I'm a common Christian that can testify to that. Not until more recently in my Christian walk that I understand there was any more to know.

Lenny: 26:38

Yeah, I think there was a point where we understood grace and kind of thought like that's all there is to know, before we realized how much deeper you can go and you just don't really stop, you don't really say well, I'm done studying, I'm done reading, I'm done seeking different truths. Why would you do that?

Melissa: 26:56

Never.

Lenny: 26:57

I think that was the silliest thing that we ever did at one point is to think in such a way as far as Christianity today, just understanding the true power of the gospel, the resurrection life that lives within them. I think that's really gotten lost in religion today and we're going to be talking about that.

Lenny: 27:16

We're going to be talking about the negative side of the way that prayer is taught today, where we see Paul talking about thankfulness, glorifying God. And today I see a different teaching going on repetitively in the institutional churches, where your sin is the primary focus, where begging for mercy and forgiveness consumes the Christian thought life.

Melissa: 27:43

It's tragic.

Lenny: 27:45

You would actually ruin somebody's prayer life if you told them that you don't need any more forgiveness.

Melissa: 27:51

It's tragic. It really upsets me to think about I'll just leave it at this saying that the institutional churches teach people to depend on them the pastors, the elders and their building rather than depend on Christ.

Lenny: 28:06

So they're not being filled, being filled with religion.

Melissa: 28:09

They're being filled with religion. Paul wanted you to be filled with the Spirit, not religion.

Lenny: 28:15

So continuing.

Melissa: 28:17

Now to him, who is able to do far more abundantly than all we ask or think, according to the power at work within us. To him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

Lenny: 28:35

So who is this him that he's referring to here?

Melissa: 28:39

None other than Yahweh.

Lenny: 28:42

Now to him, who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, basically saying anything that you ask in your prayers or think in your thought life. He can do far more abundantly than any of those things. I've seen it Absolutely so. The next question is what was the power at work within them?

Melissa: 29:06

The Holy Spirit.

Lenny: 29:08

The power of the Holy Spirit. So can we conclude that all of them had the Spirit living in them, but Paul desired that they live their lives with that in the forefront of their hearts and minds.

Melissa: 29:19

Yes, and we were talking about that. We have everything that we need, but if it's not at the forefront, you don't realize.

Lenny: 29:26

Yep, what we see in front of our faces, the worldly, tangible, physical things, is what our minds automatically focus on. We have to actually train our minds to be thinking spiritually.

Melissa: 29:40

It's like we were talking about earlier how devastating that is. You actually have everything that you need and you think you're lacking.

Lenny: 29:48

So our next passage comes from Paul's letter to the church in Philippi, chapter 1, verses 3 through 11.

Melissa: 29:56

I thank my God here's thankfulness again in all my remembrance of you, always, in every prayer of mine for you all, making my prayer with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now.

Lenny: 30:13

So why was Paul so thankful and joyful about the Philippian saints?

Melissa: 30:18

He valued his brothers and sisters in the faith.

Lenny: 30:21

Specifically, he says because of their partnership in the gospel from the first day until now. So he's saying that they were partners in the gospel from the day they believed, even until now.

Melissa: 30:34

So they are understanding. That's what he was thankful for.

Lenny: 30:37

Yeah, he was thankful for that, that they were continuing in what they heard. From the beginning they were partnering in the gospel.

Melissa: 30:45

Boy, I can relate with that. We've talked a lot about how it's really difficult when you have brothers and sisters in the faith that don't want to dive deep with you.

Lenny: 30:53

Yeah.

Melissa: 30:54

Don't seem to care.

Lenny: 30:56

Going to church isn't partnering in the gospel. It doesn't qualify as partnering in the gospel unless the people in the church are all somehow partnering in the gospel.

Melissa: 31:07

Going to a conventional church.

Lenny: 31:08

The building doesn't qualify that in any shape, way or form. So do you think that this gospel-centered living should apply to Christians today, and if so, what does that look like?

Melissa: 31:21

I say absolutely it should, because that's going to allow us to be filled with all the fullness of God.

Lenny: 31:30

Exactly. And what does that look like? Well, I think Paul's describing it in his prayers here. We learned so much from his prayer Thankfulness, glorifying Yahweh, being thankful to Yahweh for what he did. He never says beat yourself up over your sin. He never says beg God that he'll see you as a saint. You nasty sinner.

Melissa: 31:53

You pointed that out to me and it is so eye-opening, sinner, you pointed that out to me and it is so eye-opening and it also looks like partnership in the gospel, rejoicing in truth, full truth.

Lenny: 32:03

Exactly being of one mind and spirit, as was written in Acts.

Melissa: 32:09

It kind of reminds me. If you're not doing that, it makes me think of you. Know, it's fun when you're five years old and you're playing with other five-year-olds. But then, when you're ten and you're playing with five-year-olds, you might still love them as a friend, or maybe it's your brother and sister but you're starting to desire to grow and they're not there yet, so that bond is hindered.

Lenny: 32:33

And you're not experiencing any growth by hanging out with them. Nobody can grow.

Melissa: 32:37

You've kind of outgrown that age you can't grow. I should say, yeah, it reminds me of that.

Lenny: 32:43

And continuing on.

Melissa: 32:45

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. It is right for me to feel this way about you all, because I hold you in my heart.

Lenny: 33:10

First question why was Paul so sure that the Lord would complete his good work and those he wrote to?

Melissa: 33:18

Because it's promised to all believers.

Lenny: 33:21

Yeah, and he even says it's right for me to feel this way about you all, because they were partakers with him of grace.

Melissa: 33:30

Because Yahweh began a good work in them.

Lenny: 33:33

They were defending the gospel. They believed in the gospel. And here's the next question. Here's the real zinger what was the completion of the work that he was describing, and when would it take place? I think we often think that we're working our way up, we're progressively being sanctified or something becoming this better status. At the end, we're going to achieve this, some kind of status. But what was he really talking about here? What do you think he was really talking?

Melissa: 34:05

about here.

Lenny: 34:05

What was going to take place, that God's work would be complete in them.

Melissa: 34:10

The complete finished work of Yahweh, the complete finished work of Yeshua.

Lenny: 34:16

What was the final act that he was going to perform?

Melissa: 34:19

When he came on the clouds and he opened the doors to heaven, exactly the second coming.

Lenny: 34:24

The resurrection, the spiritual resurrection of the dead. Exactly that's what they were hoping for, and that was the completed work that they were waiting for.

Melissa: 34:36

Yes.

Lenny: 34:36

He finished it.

Melissa: 34:38

A fellow brother in Christ described to us their thought on what it looks like now when we go to heaven. It resonated with me. I never thought about it like this before. I guess I didn't truly realize that we don't die as Christians because our bodies die. But a fellow brother in Christ described it as it seemed to them that it's like a veil is lifted when you transfer over into heaven. Yes, our bodies die but in our inner being.

Melissa: 35:09

A veil is lifted and we are now in the heavenly realms. That's what it's like for the spiritual. That's what that final work of Christ ushered in if you will.

Lenny: 35:21

So actually, when a Christian dies, they're actually being resurrected to life.

Melissa: 35:28

Yeah, that's a better way to say it.

Lenny: 35:30

Everything in the spiritual realm tends to be opposite of what we see. Yes, where actually, when a Christian dies, they just went on to life?

Melissa: 35:39

I'm going to start referring to it as that Christian dies. No, a Christian didn't die. A Christian was resurrected to life.

Lenny: 35:48

Exactly.

Melissa: 35:49

That's really important to understand.

Lenny: 35:51

Yeah, you didn't see it happen, but it happened. It's the unseen realm.

Melissa: 35:56

Because otherwise it sounds too much like the world, kind of like getting the names right Yahweh and Yeshua and getting the real meaning out of that. That's how I see that.

Lenny: 36:07

Amen.

Melissa: 36:27

Continue in our next passage, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

Lenny: 36:41

Okay, question number one what was the day of Christ?

Melissa: 36:46

70 AD.

Lenny: 36:48

The second coming Coming in the clouds, parousia, the preterist view. Question number two does paul seem to think that this day would be coming soon? Scholars are almost unanimous that the apostles believed it was going to happen in their generation. Why did they believe that? Because christ told him that. He literally told him that.

Lenny: 37:11

so we know that paul, definitely in his letters, has this idea in his mind that it's happening soon yes question number three was their behavior the driving force that would make them pure and blameless for the day of christ? It was not the driving force. The driving force was what we read about earlier, the renewing of the mind that Paul mentions in his writing. It was the growth in the gospel, it was the knowledge of the love of Christ that surpassed all knowledge, that develops us into what God wants us to be. That's what makes us holy, that's what gives us holy thoughts. And we're going to be realizing, as we continue in this study, that Paul's telling you to focus on holy things. He's not telling you to focus on your sin life. He's looking at it kind of like you'd say well, why are you thinking so negative? You should be thinking positive. He's telling you to focus on holiness, not sin.

Melissa: 38:11

Be filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ. The fruit of righteousness, the belief of righteousness.

Lenny: 38:20

That's question number four.

Melissa: 38:23

What would you?

Lenny: 38:23

say the fruit of righteousness, might refer to in this passage the truth and belief about their righteousness. Yeah, it was Christ's righteousness that produces the fruit that we bear. It's Christ's righteousness. The final question on this passage, then, is does behavior apply here and, if so, how?

Melissa: 38:43

Behavior does not apply here.

Lenny: 38:46

It doesn't exactly apply here, but I would say that behavior does apply, in the sense that holy behavior all stems from holy thinking Focus. If you're focusing on holy things, if you're hoping for holy things, holy behavior tends to follow.

Melissa: 39:05

Your behavior should be depending on Yahweh.

Lenny: 39:09

And how do you know what's holy? Because you know the love that Christ gave. And he said to his disciples this is how they'll know you're my disciples If you love one another as I have loved you. What he's telling them is to focus on the love that he has for them, and they didn't even know what that was yet. They were going to find out Philippians 4, verses 6 through 9. They were going to find out Philippians 4, verses 6 through 9.

Melissa: 39:34

Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything. By prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God, and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Lenny: 39:55

All right, so supplication here. Just in case anybody doesn't know I had to look it up it's to plead humbly, so prayer and pleading with thanksgiving. Question number one we read earlier in Ephesians 3.19, that the love of Christ surpasses all knowledge. Do you think this is one in the same, that the love of Christ surpasses all knowledge? Do you think this is one and the same as the peace of God that is mentioned here? I think so, the peace of God which surpasses all understanding. I think that sounds about the same. We get peace from his love.

Melissa: 40:27

Oh, we sure do.

Lenny: 40:28

I mean you're reconciled to the true living God. There is no time in history before the cross that that ever happened. Before the resurrection, the Spirit was given, there was no reconciliation. Reconciliation happened at the cross. It sure did. That gives you peace, doesn't it?

Melissa: 40:45

It really does.

Lenny: 40:47

So would that peace relieve anxiety?

Melissa: 40:51

It definitely would, and I just want to quickly mention that during some difficult times that have been going on in our life. I mentioned that I've hit my knees a number of times, tried that on for size and how. I was, truly I was surprised by all the peace that I was filled with, because because what caused me to fall on my knees was such great distress and anxiety in the first place, and I wasn't expecting to be pulled back up to my feet with that kind of peace. I don't know why, but I wasn't.

Lenny: 41:27

So you kind of did what Peter says to cast your anxiety on Christ, and it worked.

Melissa: 41:34

I did. It's crazy how in certain times, you just find you literally collapse out of distress and anxiety and I literally stood up smiling. So I would say the fast-paced world that we live in, kind of multitasking, makes you more so pray while you're driving or doing dishes, and there's nothing wrong with that at all, but there is a joy and a comfort and a peace that comes from posturing yourself. Oh, I just wanted to say too real quick that that peace that relieves anxiety, you would connect in it with love, Knowing in my great distress how much I'm loved by Yahweh. Provided that peace.

Lenny: 42:25

Amen. So how does Paul recommend that we initiate this peace, this peace that we have within us, that we know about Christ?

Melissa: 42:36

I would say by praying, pleading humbly and giving thanks.

Lenny: 42:42

Amen to that. He says it right there, doesn't he?

Melissa: 42:45

Mm-hmm.

Lenny: 42:47

Can this also include our thought life, our mindset as we go throughout our day? Absolutely thought, life, our mindset as we go throughout our day. Absolutely, I just think that having all these ways of communicating with God that Paul displays is just amazing and it's going to build our relationship. We want to talk to God, we want to communicate with God our gratefulness, we want to glorify him. That feels really good to do that. So in this passage, is the guarding of the heart and mind pertaining to living by grace.

Melissa: 43:18

Yes.

Lenny: 43:19

Yeah, our mindset being on grace is guarding our heart and mind from unpure things.

Melissa: 43:25

That is living by grace, isn't it?

Lenny: 43:28

Yep, and what does a humble plead or prayer in Thanksgiving look like to you?

Melissa: 43:33

Well, I do believe that everyone can come up with a blessing in their life and, dare I say, at least three. My dad always liked to encourage me to think of three blessings. That was something that was helpful for him, and he encouraged me to do so as well. When you're feeling bad and I think when we do focus on our blessings, that humbles us and it makes us want to thank God for those things.

Lenny: 44:00

And humbly pleading is just. It's realizing that God can do it and you need him. Continuing on.

Melissa: 44:09

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely this sounds like grace living. Whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise. Think about these things, what you have learned and received.

Lenny: 44:34

Question number one Do you see the view here in Paul's prayer that seems to be opposite of what most of us have been taught to focus on in our prayer life.

Melissa: 44:53

Completely.

Lenny: 44:55

We were just talking about that. So he's telling you to focus on excellence, what's commendable, what's lovely, what's pure. And what I get from most Christians who are going to church regularly is you've got to get your self-cleansing in before you start your prayer, because otherwise God's not going to be listening. We might be told. Our minds are trained to focus on getting right with God, focusing on our sin and our filth. But what's Paul saying here? He's saying the opposite.

Melissa: 45:28

Focus on all the blessings you've been given from the Lord.

Lenny: 45:32

Yeah, what Paul's trying to say is if you want to be good, focus on good things. That's too simple yeah. But they weren't trained that way. Under law, under law, law was a constant reminder of sin.

Melissa: 45:49

And it left you lacking, it left you needing something you needed to come back you needed forgiveness, but we have it and paul knew that.

Lenny: 45:59

So do we ever see paul anywhere in scripture teach us about pleading to god for forgiveness, humbly pleading and begging for forgiveness do we? Do we see paul ever mention that?

Melissa: 46:09

you pointed out that we don't we't.

Lenny: 46:11

And if you can find me a passage, please show me. Would that be the humble pleading that Paul is displaying in his prayers? Pleading for forgiveness? Absolutely not. He doesn't say anything like that. Not at all. If anything he's saying plead that God will lead you to what is lovely, what is commendable.

Melissa: 46:31

Pleading that he would give you more knowledge of him and his love.

Lenny: 46:36

He's not saying come to God like a filthy, rotten sinner. No, he's saying humbly, but as who you are, you're a saint, so pray for holy things.

Melissa: 46:48

This message is so freeing for the Christian to understand. I pray that so many people listening will realize that.

Lenny: 46:58

I agree. So does Paul rather and we kind of answered this already does Paul rather set our focus on thanksgiving and good works instead of sin and needing more forgiveness? He sure does. Paul's prayer life shows us what Paul's mentality was, and I guess we're supposed to believe that we're lesser or something like we're less of a Christian than Paul. No, we're brothers.

announcement: 47:26

Paul was a brother a fellow Christian.

Lenny: 47:27

He was an apostle, but he wasn't above in any way that made him any more holy to God.

Melissa: 47:34

Well, if he was, then why would he say what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you? If he wasn't saying I'm going to be way better than you, so don't even try to be like me. He's telling them that everything he is and he's taught them they can have so he was focused on holiness.

Lenny: 47:58

He never gives any example of begging for forgiveness. I don't know where people get that and as I say that I know where they get I talk about all the time. I know where they're coming from. But how you reconcile that with Scripture is just it's cognitive dissonance. But continuing on what does Paul believe will be the result of living in thankfulness of Christ Yeshua's work and focusing on good and holy things rather than our sin? What is Paul thinking the result's going to be?

Melissa: 48:31

What everybody wants if they're being honest Peace.

Lenny: 48:35

Peace and holy living, perfect deeds and works. No, we're human, but holy living and a holy mindset is going to make us who we are. We're going to be acting like who we are.

Melissa: 48:50

And I have seen that so much since we've come to understand this.

Lenny: 48:54

So people think that the harder you preach on sin, the harder you beat people down, the more they're going to change. Well, why is the church struggling with sin? So bad, then that approach, if it's so great, why is it not working?

Melissa: 49:08

Because it's there. Why do I see self-righteous? Self-righteous and people that see themselves as more victims to sin? Both of those viewpoints, I think, cause people to freeze up. Self-righteous people just think that they're good enough and the victimized people think they're not good enough, and they both just kind of freeze right there, right, and so they don't have. I'm trying to think how I want to describe it if you're wanting god to use you in this life and to feel fulfilled. I just think about all that paul accomplished on this earth. God had such a plan for him and when you look at the map in the bible and you see his journey that he made mostly on foot or by ship, I mean, how could he possibly have accomplished that? If he was frozen up, thinking that, that he was self-righteous or that he was just some sinner saved by grace, he would never have had the focus, the capacity of focus, on holy living.

Lenny: 50:16

So the final question should our prayer life ever include pleading for forgiveness, and why?

Melissa: 50:24

No, because we have it.

Lenny: 50:26

I think we'll just keep it at that, Continuing on 1 Corinthians 1, verses 4-9.

Melissa: 50:34

I give thanks to my God, always for you, because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him, in all speech and knowledge, even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you.

Lenny: 50:51

Earlier Paul wrote to other churches desiring that they be filled with knowledge, love, peace. How can we reconcile this statement with those he's saying they were enriched in all speech and knowledge? I think that for me that just goes back to the point we were making earlier. There's the knowledge that comes at salvation, and then there's the further knowledge.

Melissa: 51:13

There's the knowledge that comes at salvation.

Lenny: 51:14

And then there's the further knowledge he's referring to the full knowledge that you receive when you just believe there's a fullness there. There's an essence of full knowledge. When you understand and believe at salvation, you're given a full knowledge that saved you that's right but it's like the gas tank that is full but you can keep filling it for some reason. That's spiritualness. So do you find it odd that he tells the church who seemed overall most sinful, all churches in their behavior, the Corinthians that they were enriched in every way?

Melissa: 51:50

We were talking earlier about this that you were saying. It seemed he realized they likely needed to hear that most of all.

Lenny: 51:59

So the more problem with sin you have, the more grace you need.

Melissa: 52:03

The more you need to realize yeah.

Lenny: 52:06

I thought you'd need more law. You need some rules.

Melissa: 52:10

You need more grace, apparently, paul didn't think that way.

Lenny: 52:13

He thought they needed more grace. Yes, he needed them to be reminded of the fullness that they received at salvation because they were probably extra tempted to just keep thinking about all their sin and it could be because they were a lot of them were building poorly on that foundation, so he was kind of bringing them back. Remember that fullness that you had. Start building on that instead, guys. So continuing on verse 7.

Melissa: 52:40

So that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless, in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Lenny: 52:56

First question In many areas of Scripture we see it being said hold fast or hold tight in order to sustain to the end. How can he speak as if it's already secure in this passage?

Melissa: 53:07

Because it is. They're told that it is.

Lenny: 53:10

There again, you have that idea where you're holding to what saved you Right? You're mentally keeping that in. Is there again? You have that idea where you're holding to what saved you. Right, You're mentally keeping that in mind, You're holding fast to that till the end. But when you believe you are already in God's hands. But when we start holding on loosely, we get distracted. But we're always in his hands. He doesn't let go.

Melissa: 53:30

He's holding on to us we talked about how paul says grace and peace to you so much because he wants us to remember, constantly remember yep.

Lenny: 53:40

So why would he give the corinthians so much confidence? We already kind of talked about that. They needed it. They needed extra assurance in the gospel. And the last question for uh, for this passage do you think that under today's standard, most of the people Paul wrote to in Corinth would have been in and out of fellowship with the Lord?

Melissa: 53:59

Well, that's sure not what Paul said.

Lenny: 54:01

No, not at all. But under today's standard our sin breaks our fellowship. So the Corinthians, if they were under today's doctrine, they would have been in and out of fellowship with God. Today's doctrines would say to the Corinthians your prayers aren't being heard, you are a sinner. You need to get right with God. Why did Paul not say that to them?

Melissa: 54:22

It's just such error. When you need Christ the most, you're supposed to view yourself as not worthy to speak with him.

Lenny: 54:29

Yeah.

Melissa: 54:30

That's just complete non-Christian garbage.

Lenny: 54:34

We're going to cut it off here due to time, but verse 9 is where we're going to start next week the rest of this verse and we've been leading into this the whole time so you're going to want to stick around and hear next week's podcast so we can finish this thing off.

Melissa: 54:51

Awesome. I've really enjoyed talking about getting back to the belief that we had when we first became a Christian.

Lenny: 54:58

Amen, it's been great talking, melissa, it's been great studying, and I hope you guys out there are enjoying this study and we'll see you again next week.

Melissa: 55:06

See you next week.

announcement: 55:08

Thank you for listening to the Waking Up to Grace podcast brought to you by the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ. If you enjoyed today's episode, we would love to hear from you. You can send encouragement our way right from our episodes and transcripts page or reach Lenny privately from the contact form at wakinguptogracecom.