announcement: 0:01

Hello and welcome to the Waking Up to Grace podcast, where we celebrate and explore the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ. Tune in to the Waking Up to Grace podcast on every major platform. You can also listen to our episodes and read our full transcripts at wakinguptogracecom. And now here's Lenny.

Lenny: 0:22

Welcome back to the podcast, everyone.

announcement: 0:23

Welcome back. Today we will continue our study on.

Melissa: 0:25

Welcome back to the podcast. Everyone, Welcome back.

Lenny: 0:26

Today we will continue our study on Paul's letter to the Romans. When you think about obedience, what is the first thing that comes to mind? I think of someone with good self-control, someone who has practiced discipline in their life and conducts themselves in a way that would display these things to others. The question is can we apply these things to faith? And an even greater question would be is the Apostle Paul mixing self-effort with faith in these first passages that we read in Romans? According to many who teach scripture, this is what Paul is doing here. Melissa has a quote from someone she found that I would like to share for the sake of perspective.

Melissa: 1:05

Yes, I was looking up the topic of the obedience of faith and I found this quote from a pastor who calls his church the New Covenant Baptist Church. He says this belief and action. It involves living out the teachings of Christ, following his commandments and cooperating with the grace of God. It is through this obedience of faith that one participates in the saving work of Christ and grows in holiness.

Lenny: 1:40

I don't see Paul teaching anything like this to his church, despite how good it sounds to our ears. Actually, it would be quite the opposite.

Melissa: 1:48

In Ephesians 2.8, Paul writes For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God.

Lenny: 1:58

So Paul explains here that you've been saved by grace and it was through faith. When he says that it is not your doing, did he mean one and not the other? I don't have any doubts that he meant both faith and grace are a gift from Yahweh and they're not our doing.

Melissa: 2:15

And then later in Romans, paul writes in chapter 11, verse 6, but if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works. Otherwise grace would no longer be grace. This alone is a major indication of what Paul will be describing in our apostle set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures, concerning his son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the son of God in power according to the spirit of, by his resurrection from the dead. Jesus Christ, our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith, for the sake of his name, among all the nations, including you, who are called to belong to Jesus Christ, to all those in Rome who are loved by God. So can the concept of obedience being a work that we perform be justified in Scripture?

Lenny: 3:42

Or is it just a lack of studying scripture and a lack of contextual awareness that causes this view to be presented in churchianity today? It shouldn't surprise us that today's churches are being fed information from their go-to sources, and many even pay for this content. Your pastor may not even be putting together his or her own messages, let alone concerning themselves with the context. It's sad but true. You hear it from honest people on the inside of these places. But getting back to the context, there are other places in scripture that describe obedience. I think if we look at a couple of these, we can get a pretty clear picture of what Paul means about the obedience of faith.

Melissa: 4:22

In John 3.36, john the Baptist declares Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Lenny: 4:37

I see this passage highlighting with clarity the fact that obedience is belief. Let's read it once more so it can really saturate Obedience is belief.

Melissa: 4:45

Let's read it once more so it can really saturate. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Lenny: 4:58

Can you see what I mean? Obedience can certainly mean something else, but in the case of faith it cannot be by our effort. It is not something we can earn. Although we don't earn faith, we can be given it in different measures, it would seem in Scripture.

Melissa: 5:13

In Romans 12.3, we read For by the grace given to me, I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Lenny: 5:30

Paul even reveals in his letter to Timothy that a Christian can be faithless, and yet Yahweh remains faithful In 2 Timothy 2.13,.

Melissa: 5:43

So we always remain in his faith. If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.

Lenny: 5:46

So we always remain in his faith. He cannot deny himself as making reference to Christ Yeshua dwelling in us. Whose faith is bigger, ours or Yahweh's? Don't forget, we have been given his faith as a gift and he promised not to take it back. In John 10.

Melissa: 6:04

28, yeshua says I give them eternal life and they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Lenny: 6:14

That's our Lord, christ Yeshua, talking about those who are his, those who the Father gave him. To be clear, we are his when we believe at salvation. You can't change that After salvation. Your faith doesn't really change anything. In a sense, it doesn't really matter. It can't change your salvation, it doesn't change who you are in Christ.

Melissa: 6:36

In 1 Corinthians, 13, 2, we read and if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but have no love, I am nothing.

Lenny: 6:54

Faith was a spiritual gift in those times. This could be why Paul mentions measures being given in Romans 12. But it doesn't change that it is given to us. It would be given to us in a different way now. Yahweh will teach us how to build on our faith if we desire that, rather than just giving it to us in miraculous measure without any training or learning required, like as if it was a spiritual gift. How do we get more if we want it? We have to go to the vine. Yeshua teaches that he is the vine. We are the branches. Is it based on our special skills? Not at all. I believe it's based on humbling ourselves before our Lord. It's about desire. It's about understanding his love and mercy. As we begin to cherish his love for us in increasing measure, our lives are transformed. His love is not like the love we see in the world. It's not worldly love, it's divine. This kind of love can produce suffering.

Lenny: 7:53

As a Christian, you might express your love to someone by sharing Christ and receive persecution in return. You might be willing to accept that because of your love for that person who now might hate you. When you hear today's prosperity preachers teach on love, they don't teach of this love. These types would never offend anyone. With the cross of Christ, they feed off of good vibes. If Christ, Yeshua and his apostles taught that way, they would have been loved. They would not have been persecuted. Think about this for a minute. Did you ever read of the apostles telling a non-believer that Jesus loves them? Did you ever hear Jesus tell the unfaithful I love you? Show me one passage to justify that attitude. You can't because it's not there. It would be the equivalent of Noah boasting a banner on his ark for the drowning people that says God loves you.

Melissa: 8:45

Pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

Lenny: 8:47

Yeah, and I'm not saying that we have to attack those views and make fun of people or tell people Yahweh hates you. Yahweh can use these things to open the eyes of others. We should only realize that Yahweh does not love everyone. We also have to admit that we don't know who Yahweh loves, because all of his elect have not come to faith yet. The invitation of Christ is available to all, but faith and belief are a gift from Yahweh, and I know Melissa had looked up several definitions of some key words in our passage about obedience to faith and I'd like to hear some of those. What do you got for us?

Melissa: 9:23

Well, I'm kind of on a roll with this.

Lenny: 9:25

You and Webster are getting along, aren't you?

Melissa: 9:27

I've found it very helpful, as I've mentioned before, to look these words up in the English dictionary and see what unfolds there. I was particularly amazed to see how much the word of had to give. We'll get to that in a minute. I looked up obedient or obedience of, and faith, so we'll start with the word obedient. As you might imagine, this means compliant, conformable, submissive, submissive to the restraint or command of authority, readily amendable or readily brought to yield, easily controlled or tractable. Okay, so that's what Webster has to say about to be obedient. And then the word of from, so obedience, from faith.

Melissa: 10:23

As we were talking about, our obedience comes from faith. We're not obedient and then we receive faith. So, continuing with of having as a significant background or character element, having as a significant background or character element, and as saints, we know that we certainly have a significant background because we were chosen beforehand, before the creation of the world. Yahweh foreknew us and he foreloved us, we're told. We have the mind of Christ. He is in us and we are in him. He will never leave us. He will never forsake us. No one can snatch us from the Father's hand. We now have what it takes to be obedient in our Lord, the faith that comes from Yeshua.

Lenny: 11:08

Amen.

Melissa: 11:09

So we certainly have a significant background and character. Element Of can mean by and from that, I thought, thought faith makes us obedient, faith produces belief. We owe our obedience to the faith given us by Jesus Christ, our Lord, continuing on having as component parts or material contents or members, such as a house of brick, a glass of water, and we've talked before how we are parts of the body of Christ. He is the head. We come together, the saints, to make up the body right. So we certainly have the components and parts.

Lenny: 11:53

Yeah, and he's the cornerstone.

Melissa: 11:55

Right Christ being the cornerstone and the head.

Lenny: 11:58

He's the foundation of our faith. He's the brick house. He's a brick house.

Melissa: 12:07

He's mighty mighty he is. Then we have belonging to or included by, such as the front of the house, the son of a doctor, and my thinking went here we, the church, the saints again, are the body of Christ the father gave us to the son as a love gift for his sacrifice. Of those that the father gave him, he lost none. He is in us and we are in him. So we are certainly belonging to christ and included in the church by the father. That's what I have for of.

Lenny: 12:44

I thought that was pretty cool to show how obedience is of faith yeah, I like how you took a simple word and started pulling up some meaning that wouldn't just come to your mind automatically.

Melissa: 12:57

It shows the depths of what's trying to be said here by Paul.

Lenny: 13:00

Yeah.

Melissa: 13:01

And then we have faith, the gift that comes from God, from his grace. He gave us faith. It's allegiance to duty or a person, loyalty, belief and trust in God. And that's complete trust, constancy, dedication, devotion, fastness. We hear that a lot Paul say hold fast, steadfastness, confidence, conforming to the facts or to an original, conforming to the facts or to an original. So we're able to be all these things to Yahweh because of the faith that he gave us.

Lenny: 13:43

Yeah, that happens at salvation. All those things happen at salvation. You wouldn't have been saved if you didn't have that allegiance. That's how you were saved.

Melissa: 13:55

And that's how we're obedient.

Lenny: 13:56

You accepted Christ's offer of life. How much more trust can you display in somebody?

Melissa: 14:03

That's complete trust.

Lenny: 14:05

You trust them with your life. You trust them to give you life, you trust that they are life. I mean that's a big trust.

Melissa: 14:11

And that trust is how we are obedient.

Lenny: 14:16

So when we're given this great gift, we're immediately consumed with joy and excitement, aren't we? Yeah, we are. What an amazing moment when Christ Yeshua reveals himself to us and we are saved. But I think I'm not alone when I say I've had times in life where I felt less than excited about my faith. It was always there, but the enthusiasm fizzled out and maybe got set on the back burner for a time. Difficult times can pull us toward our Lord or can push us away from Him, can't they?

Melissa: 14:47

This is true.

Lenny: 14:48

What a blessing when he sends us a wake-up call after using our experiences to discipline us and train us in endurance. In my experience, when we're feeling like things are fizzled out, when we're feeling like we need more grace, we have to go back to the beginning for a moment to consider where we've gone wrong, where we're in error and how to get back to the place of joy and enthusiasm that we had in the beginning. It makes me think of the experience Melissa had with a couple in our close circles. You want to tell the story, melissa?

Melissa: 15:21

Yes, I'd love to. We're going to call the couple David and Joan. David and Joan were a pillar couple. They were a couple we could look to when we were having our struggles and we could model ourselves.

Melissa: 15:34

After and about a year after you and I got married and trying to navigate through how to mesh our personalities and have the best marriage that we could and having our own struggles, I received a call from Joan. She divulged that she was thinking about leaving David because their marriage had been struggling for a long time now. Because their marriage had been struggling for a long time now. And I was blindsided. I had no idea. This couple is very faithful to the Lord, fellow Christians, and they were doing a good job of not displaying the struggles that they were having. So it really took me by surprise. Joan was really beside herself, not knowing what to do, and I could tell she was just grasping for straws. She was calling me because she loved me and just hoping for some kind of direction. And here I am, this young, newly married Christian, and I'm thinking what kind of advice can I give to the very person that I look up to? But, being that I was still at the beginning of our marriage and very much overwhelmed with love for Lenny, for you.

Lenny: 16:45

It's easy to do.

Melissa: 16:46

Yeah, you know how it is in the first, especially the first year of marriage, not much takes your focus off of that person, and as time goes on, there's so many other things to focus on. But at that time my focus was very much on Lenny and all I could think about was how much I loved him, and all I could think about was how much I knew Joan loved David and how frightening and tragic it would be if the two of them weren't together and how lonely she would feel if she didn't have him him and vice versa. And so I asked her when she said what do you think if I were to leave David? And I said well, do you love him? And she paused for a moment and said yes, confidently. And she said you know, I just got off the phone with my best friend and she asked me the same question.

Melissa: 17:37

Now, her best friend is also a Christian with many years of marriage behind her and the Lord guiding her marriage. So the Lord was certainly at work there. But right away I could hear her voice perk up and she seemed to know exactly what she needed to do. And this was over 20 years ago and I'm proud in Christ to say that David and Joan are still married and more in love and happier than they've ever been.

Lenny: 18:02

The renewal came and I think maybe this is the reason people get re-baptized. You know you could look like. Well, why would anybody get baptized again? Why don't anybody want to declare and renew their love for Christ again publicly, like some people do?

Lenny: 18:15

Or maybe a renewing of vows in a marriage too, yeah it doesn't have to mean all that person's under legalism Could just be that they're feeling a renewed power of grace working in them because they went back to the beginning again and realized this is all I have to do is I just got to remember God's love that happened at the beginning. I got to remember that moment that I had at salvation and build on that. And so David and Joan went back and they built on that, and after that what they built just became stronger than ever.

Melissa: 18:46

Stronger than ever.

Lenny: 18:47

We don't necessarily have to look at it like starting all over, but maybe it's just time to kind of go back to the beginning and build again.

Melissa: 18:55

I like how you said it to me this past week. You said cherish the belief that we received at salvation.

Lenny: 19:02

Exactly so. Are we living by the faith that we received at salvation? Are we living by the love we first experienced when we came to Christ, or have we fallen into traditions and self-discipline? Are we living a life guided by the love of God or the love that we learn from the world? The world would have told David and Joan maybe you just need to go your own way. Worldly love will never teach you to love your enemies. Worldly love cannot teach you how to love others as Christ loved you.

Lenny: 19:34

As we heard earlier from that quote Melissa found from a pastor figure with mainstream views, churchianity is teaching people that if you love Christ, you will keep his commandments. They make his commandments a set of rules based on his teachings that he made in the context of law. Christ was in fact, a teacher of law. He was the greatest teacher of law to ever walk the earth. But we're not under law, we're under grace. We're under his grace. If we look for rules in the Bible, we'll find them. If we seek grace, the scripture will set us free.

Lenny: 20:10

I've always said keeping the commands of Christ is to cherish and make precious the commands of Christ. This is not done through keeping the rules. This is done freely by faith. What would happen if we took away the rules of law and order in our country? Would people continue to follow them? The will of Yahweh is for us to serve freely from the heart. He took away the rules and put a counselor in their place. A counselor does not punish. A counselor is there to guide you. Christ Yeshua is your personal counselor, and what would that counselor be guiding us toward? What did he teach his disciples? Let's start with what John said about Christ Yeshua a short time before he would hand himself over to be crucified. In John 13,1 we read he loved his own who were in the world and loved them to the end, those of little faith, as he called them. He cherished them as his own. Nothing they could do would change that.

Melissa: 21:22

In John 13, 34, we read A new commandment I give to you that you will love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

Lenny: 21:34

And he says this again later in chapter 15, verse 12.

Melissa: 21:48

And then again he says it in John 15, 14-17. No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing, but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father, I have made known to you you did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. These things I command you so that you will love one another.

Lenny: 22:21

So how do we know if we are a friend of Christ? How do we know if we love him? What did he tell his disciples? This is where people stop reading and start making their rules. This is where we are told by many we don't love Christ if we don't follow his rules. We're not his friend if we don't follow his rules. Those, under this teaching, find themselves in and out of love, in and out of fellowship, in and out of friendship. What did John say about the love Christ Yeshua had for his disciples?

Melissa: 22:55

He loved them to the end.

Lenny: 22:58

I don't hear of anything that sounds like in and out of love in this statement, do you?

Melissa: 23:03

No.

Lenny: 23:04

What we see here is a perfect love that was never broken.

Melissa: 23:08

Amen. Yeshua goes on to say but I have called you friends. For all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.

Lenny: 23:18

Why did he call?

Melissa: 23:18

them friends.

Lenny: 23:24

So what was the command then? It was believe. It was believe in his love. Have faith in his love, not your own. And he continues.

Melissa: 23:35

You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide.

Lenny: 23:45

And then combine that with.

Melissa: 23:47

John 10, 28. I give them eternal life and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Lenny: 23:57

Christians, you are not in and out of fellowship with Yahweh. In reality, if we want to feel close to God, we need to desire his fruit, not the fruit of the world. We need the counselor to teach us how to live by our new divine nature. Although we have a divine nature, living by it does not seem to come naturally, but it does come spiritually. We can trust Christ Yeshua. We can trust that when we desire to please him, we will bear much fruit If we cherish him. We will not be led astray. If we keep his commands, if we hold tightly to his commands, if we cherish them and cling to them tightly, we will be blessed.

Lenny: 24:37

If someone gave you a great gift, would you toss it aside or put it somewhere it could get lost, or would you cover it up? Of course not, and we should keep the commands of Christ safe and secure and where we can be reminded of them regularly. Let's not cover this up. Let it shine in your life. Don't close your eyes to it and act like those who walk in darkness. When we close our eyes, it gets dark, doesn't it? We can be guided by Paul's spiritual guidance.

Melissa: 25:05

Romans 12.2. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind that by testing you may discern what is the rules and regulations. Paul wrote In Romans 3.27, believers, we love Christ. By what kind of law? By a law of works, no, but by the law of faith.

Lenny: 25:38

Believers, we love Christ. We don't need rules from our church to govern us. Let's be guided by the counselor. We love Christ Yeshua, so let's act like it. We can sum up all the new covenant teaching on sin in this way. This is what I believe Paul made so much effort in teaching his churches, and we will see this beautiful message unfold more and more as we go through his letter to the Romans.

Lenny: 26:02

We don't need better rule keeping. We need a genuine desire, a desire that does not come from fear of punishment or some kind of special reward. We have received our reward. We just have to realize how great it is. If we go back to the love we felt from Yahweh when we first believed and build on that, we can live an abundant life in Christ, a life that is already ours, but most have lost sight of it. And then there are those who call themselves Christians, who preach worldly love. Those who teach worldly love will be embraced by the world. Whatever those teachers are doesn't mean anything to me. They don't preach Christ crucified. In 1 Corinthians 1.23, paul said but we preach Christ crucified a stumbling block to the Jews and folly to Gentiles.

Lenny: 26:54

Yeshua reminded his disciples of what would happen to them and can happen to us as well, when we share the love of Christ, when we share the cross of Christ and the resurrection life of Christ, when we proclaim what Christ proclaimed in John 14 6.

Melissa: 27:07

Jesus said to him I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Lenny: 27:17

If those prosperity preachers taught this before their message every day, they wouldn't like the results, would they?

Melissa: 27:23

Certainly not.

Lenny: 27:25

Yeshua told his disciples in John 15, 18,.

Melissa: 27:29

If the world hates you, know that it hated me before. It hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own. But because you are not of the world but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you a servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. But all these things they will do to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me.

Lenny: 28:07

When we're overcome by troubles, we have to remember that Christ did promise that these things would happen. This only proves all the more that we can trust him. Many see this as a reason to question Yahweh. We should be cautious when taking this view, as tempting as it might be. Satan's view was that Yahweh was not just. Yahweh was not fair. Yahweh was not loving. He took pride in a different type of love, a worldly type of love.

Melissa: 28:35

A bit later, yeshua adds in John 16.33, I have said these things to you that in me you may have peace In the world. You will have tribulation, but take heart, I have overcome the world.

Lenny: 28:51

Yeshua promises that he has overcome the world. We just have to trust him on that. He is the author of life. Why would we want to follow the views of Satan, who is no more? Satan could not give life to others and he couldn't raise himself from the dead. Yahweh is God Most High, and when you believe, you share in his resurrection life. Life is too short to live like the dead. Let's make the most of every moment. Amen. I hope you have a great day out there.

Melissa: 29:21

Until next time.

announcement: 29:24

Thank you for listening to the Waking Up to Grace podcast brought to you by the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ. If you enjoyed today's episode, we would love to hear from you. You can send encouragement our way right from our episodes and transcripts page or reach Lenny privately from the contact form at wakinguptogracecom.